Is Dave Chisnall an elite player?

[PT13]

Regarding Clayton. Absolutely he should be on the list. He won FOUR majors in one season, two of which were the PL and Grand Prix. Now it could be argued he was a one season wonder regarding winning majors.
But I don’t think any other player other than Taylor and MVG have won 4 or more majors in one season. In 2021 he was clearly elite and for a time arguably the best player in the world.

I don't consider the WS or Masters to be majors.

Had he won the Worlds in 2021 and a few other TV events he'd be there, but I'm not sure if the GP and PL alone is enough.

Gerwyn Price is somewhere in between "elite" and Clayton standard, in that he's a World Champion and can play like a Taylor at his best standard if we look at parts of the 2021 World Championship final (before he was choking horribly when near the finish line), and the whole of the Grand Slam finals of 2019 and 2021 against Wright. For a lot of that 2019 final, Price was playing very serious, very little showboating, and averaging 115 for a lot of the match, finishing at 107.86 in a 16-6 win.

But Price still has some consistency issues. He would be one of the elite if he was more consistent.

[The Thorn]

Similar debate to whether Zlatan Ibrahimovic was an elite player or not

Which he clearly was. It’s not even debatable.

Never won the Champions League, which is crazy when you look at his club history.

I agree he's elite though, but that's what causes much of the debate ^

I will create a thread

Post count is on fire this evening. Oche is the cause of it and he's made about 3 posts

I'm trying to get to 150 today

And I will

[sennafan24]

Without wanting to recycle the old what constitutes a major debate. Whether you like it or not, they are officially considered majors and will count towards his record. They are arguably the 2 lowest prestige majors though.

Aren't they considered "premier events"?

Regardless, your last sentence underlines why I don't value them that highly and why they are not enough for me to class Clayton as elite.

[sennafan24]

Gerwyn Price is somewhere in between "elite" and Clayton standard, in that he's a World Champion and can play like a Taylor at his best standard if we look at parts of the 2021 World Championship final (before he was choking horribly when near the finish line), and the whole of the Grand Slam finals of 2019 and 2021 against Wright. For a lot of that 2019 final, Price was playing very serious, very little showboating, and averaging 115 for a lot of the match, finishing at 107.86 in a 16-6 win.

But Price still has some consistency issues. He would be one of the elite if he was more consistent.

Price just about makes my cut.

- World Champ

- World Number 1 for a time

- 7 singles TV titles, including 4 ranking TV events

[PT13]

Even if we discount what Headshaker has done over the past decade, he was 100% an elite player in the late 90s and throughout the 2000s.

+1

[shenmue]

Was terry Jenkins elite?, another serial tv final bottler, his Blackpool final vs the prowler is the stuff of nightmares.

[sennafan24]

Was terry Jenkins elite?, another serial tv final bottler, his Blackpool final vs the prowler is the stuff of nightmares.

Not in my view.

Which is a shame because I was a fan.

[The Thorn]

Was terry Jenkins elite?, another serial tv final bottler, his Blackpool final vs the prowler is the stuff of nightmares.

Not in my view.

Which is a shame because I was a fan.

Only?

[PT13]

Was terry Jenkins elite?, another serial tv final bottler, his Blackpool final vs the prowler is the stuff of nightmares.

Jenkins could beat anyone in a big TV match, as long as it wasn't a final.

[shenmue]

Chizzy vs the prowler in Dublin final was horrendous as well.

Cunt isn't elite imo. Good player and career though, money wise definitely.

[PT13]

Chizzy vs the prowler in Dublin final was horrendous as well.

The 2013 World Grand Prix final. It was a masterclass of a performance. In the first 5 sets, Chisnall only had 1 dart at a finish in total, and that was at the bullseye. Taylor mauled him. Funnily enough, Chizzy won 2 legs in the 6th set, one of which was a whitewash leg, but 6-0 it ended.

[Brainbox]

I don't think he has the consistency to be considered a true elite player.

[Malanax]

Gerwyn Price is somewhere in between "elite" and Clayton standard, in that he's a World Champion and can play like a Taylor at his best standard if we look at parts of the 2021 World Championship final (before he was choking horribly when near the finish line), and the whole of the Grand Slam finals of 2019 and 2021 against Wright. For a lot of that 2019 final, Price was playing very serious, very little showboating, and averaging 115 for a lot of the match, finishing at 107.86 in a 16-6 win.

But Price still has some consistency issues. He would be one of the elite if he was more consistent.

Price just about makes my cut.

- World Champ

- World Number 1 for a time

- 7 singles TV titles, including 4 ranking TV events

+1

Chizzy is not elite, elite players win and are expected to win tv 'majors'. You can be at an elite standard for a while and fade for a bit - Gurney Clayton as examples.

[thegentle]

Without wanting to recycle the old what constitutes a major debate. Whether you like it or not, they are officially considered majors and will count towards his record. They are arguably the 2 lowest prestige majors though.

Aren't they considered "premier events"?

Regardless, your last sentence underlines why I don't value them that highly and why they are not enough for me to class Clayton as elite.

The Masters maybe not so much as it's traditionally the curtain-raiser to the new season, players often either pull out of it, or are otherwise not in peak form, but the World Series Finals has all the top players, it's on a stage, on TV and over the same distance as all the other Premier events, it takes just as much winning as any other TV event

[thegentle]

Gerwyn Price is somewhere in between "elite" and Clayton standard, in that he's a World Champion and can play like a Taylor at his best standard if we look at parts of the 2021 World Championship final (before he was choking horribly when near the finish line), and the whole of the Grand Slam finals of 2019 and 2021 against Wright. For a lot of that 2019 final, Price was playing very serious, very little showboating, and averaging 115 for a lot of the match, finishing at 107.86 in a 16-6 win.

But Price still has some consistency issues. He would be one of the elite if he was more consistent.

Price just about makes my cut.

- World Champ

- World Number 1 for a time

- 7 singles TV titles, including 4 ranking TV events

+1

Chizzy is not elite, elite players win and are expected to win tv 'majors'. You can be at an elite standard for a while and fade for a bit - Gurney Clayton as examples.

Anyone who has won a TV title and was consistently challenging for titles around that time I would classify as elite, so Humphries, Asp, those two, Mensur and Dimitri would at one point or another have made the cut, but Jose, Noppert (borderline cases), Cullen, Dobey, Ross Smith, and Gilding miss out (as of yet anyway). Duzza is a strange one as he was there or thereabouts, won his big TV title but then completely faded away (indeed you could argue Premier League finals night was the beginning of his decline)

[thegentle]

Similar debate to whether Zlatan Ibrahimovic was an elite player or not

Which he clearly was. It’s not even debatable.

Never won the Champions League, which is crazy when you look at his club history.

I agree he's elite though, but that's what causes much of the debate ^

Eto'o won the Champions League with Barcelona in 09 before he moved to Inter in a swap deal with Zlatan where he famously beat Barcelona in the semis on the way to winning it again the next season, bet Zlatan has a dartboard with Eto'o's face on!

[Greipel]

Brainbox, who is currently on your ignore list, made this post.

A few comments above.

[sennafan24]

Without wanting to recycle the old what constitutes a major debate. Whether you like it or not, they are officially considered majors and will count towards his record. They are arguably the 2 lowest prestige majors though.

Aren't they considered "premier events"?

Regardless, your last sentence underlines why I don't value them that highly and why they are not enough for me to class Clayton as elite.

The Masters maybe not so much as it's traditionally the curtain-raiser to the new season, players often either pull out of it, or are otherwise not in peak form, but the World Series Finals has all the top players, it's on a stage, on TV and over the same distance as all the other Premier events, it takes just as much winning as any other TV event

It's non-ranking and the prize money for the winner is less than the other TV singles events (WS support events + Masters aside). It also doesn't have the same prestige as long established events such as the Matchplay, GP, etc.

I probably value winning it more than the Masters and certainly the World Cup, but it doesn't weigh that heavily on a player's resume in my view. At least in the context of the debate we are having about Clayton.

[sennafan24]

What hurts Duzza is that he spent much of his prime as a big fish in a small pond. His chief rival during the BDO's Golden Era was McGeeney, who while a good player was nowhere near the same level as MVG, Gando, Wright and others in the PDC.

Had his game not fallen off a cliff in late 2020 he would have probably made my list. He would have surely won more PDC TV events and been high in the rankings for a sustained period of time.

[thegentle]

Without wanting to recycle the old what constitutes a major debate. Whether you like it or not, they are officially considered majors and will count towards his record. They are arguably the 2 lowest prestige majors though.

Aren't they considered "premier events"?

Regardless, your last sentence underlines why I don't value them that highly and why they are not enough for me to class Clayton as elite.

The Masters maybe not so much as it's traditionally the curtain-raiser to the new season, players often either pull out of it, or are otherwise not in peak form, but the World Series Finals has all the top players, it's on a stage, on TV and over the same distance as all the other Premier events, it takes just as much winning as any other TV event

It's non-ranking and the prize money for the winner is less than the other TV singles events (WS support events + Masters aside). It also doesn't have the same prestige as long established events such as the Matchplay, GP, etc.

I probably value winning it more than the Masters and certainly the World Cup, but it doesn't weigh that heavily on a player's resume in my view. At least in the context of the debate we are having about Clayton.

Whether an event is ranked or not make less difference to the elite players, they are ranked high enough anyway that it makes little difference to them (think the highest Clayton was ranked was about 7, which didn't reflect his quality, but was good enough for him not to worry about making any events). In any case, Clayton was clearly one of the best in the world at that time, his elite status confirmed when he won the Premier League (ranked or not, to finish in the top 4 after 17 weeks of action between the best players in the world, and then to win the event confirms you as elite)