The Darts Forum

thegentle wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2023 9:21 am Whether an event is ranked or not make less difference to the elite players, they are ranked high enough anyway that it makes little difference to them (think the highest Clayton was ranked was about 7, which didn't reflect his quality, but was good enough for him not to worry about making any events). In any case, Clayton was clearly one of the best in the world at that time, his elite status confirmed when he won the Premier League (ranked or not, to finish in the top 4 after 17 weeks of action between the best players in the world, and then to win the event confirms you as elite)

Prize money, prestige and ranking all add value to a title. World Series ranks low in all three categories compared to other TV events.

If you asked the players to rank the TV singles events in order of those they would most like to win I'm certain the WS would be near the bottom with the Masters.

Duzza also win the PL and topped the league phase, yet in your previous post you deemed him as a strange case rather than outright claiming he was elite.

sennafan24 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2023 9:06 am What hurts Duzza is that he spent much of his prime as a big fish in a small pond. His chief rival during the BDO's Golden Era was McGeeney, who while a good player was nowhere near the same level as MVG, Gando, Wright and others in the PDC.

Had his game not fallen off a cliff in late 2020 he would have probably made my list. He would have surely won more PDC TV events and been high in the rankings for a sustained period of time.

Don't think it's a given that Duzza would have won anything else tbf, he was perhaps more consistent and he was more of a grinder, but his level in the PDC was similar to Chizzy in that he could go far in events, but wasn't going to blow the top names away regularly. Other than that utter shitfest of a Premier League win, where he won while being well below par (they don't write averages on trophies you know! ), what's the closest he got to winning a PDC TV title? I recall he had a close battle with Dimi in the Matchplay before he blew away Gando, was that the quarters or the semis?

thegentle wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2023 9:36 am

sennafan24 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2023 9:06 am What hurts Duzza is that he spent much of his prime as a big fish in a small pond. His chief rival during the BDO's Golden Era was McGeeney, who while a good player was nowhere near the same level as MVG, Gando, Wright and others in the PDC.

Had his game not fallen off a cliff in late 2020 he would have probably made my list. He would have surely won more PDC TV events and been high in the rankings for a sustained period of time.

Don't think it's a given that Duzza would have won anything else tbf, he was perhaps more consistent and he was more of a grinder, but his level in the PDC was similar to Chizzy in that he could go far in events, but wasn't going to blow the top names away regularly. Other than that utter shitfest of a Premier League win, where he won while being well below par (they don't write averages on trophies you know! ), what's the closest he got to winning a PDC TV title? I recall he had a close battle with Dimi in the Matchplay before he blew away Gando, was that the quarters or the semis?

He made 4 TV semi finals prior to his PL win. Including two Matchplay SFs, a GP semi, and a GDOD semi.

He also beat MVG on TV a few times, including at the 2019 Matchplay.

Given that he had decent bottle and consistentcy, and given the open nature of the fields due to the absence of a prime Taylor or peak MVG, he would have collected more TV trophies imo.

Just managed to Google it, his semi-finals were as follows:
2019 Matchplay: Durrant (94.16) 10-17 Smith (100.77) (Smith would lose to Cross in the final)
2019 Grand Prix: Durrant (87.20) 1-4 Chisnall (91.17) (MvG beat Chizzy in the final)
2019 Grand Slam (an asterisk in your eyes as it was a non-ranking tournament for Duzza ) Durrant (BDO) (94.16) 11-16 Wright (97.34) (Wright got marmalised in the final to Price)
2020 Matchplay: Durrant (98.44) 15-17 Van den Bergh (98.97) (indeed his best chance, Dimi beat a below-par Gando comfortably in the final)

I agree he was elite for a short time, but that resume doesn't fill me with confidence that he'd have got the job done again. Not saying it definitely wouldn't have happened, but he'd have had to have a bit of luck considering he didn't quite have the consistently explosive A-game in the longer format that the likes of MvG, Wright and Price had, and even so, there were always a few others on the same level who could have beaten him

I don't think that an event isn't a major just because it isn't a ranking event btw.

Given the prize money involved I had few issues with people deeming the PL as a major. Neither would I complain if someone claimed the GSOD was a major before it became a ranking event.

As I posted, it's a combination of prestige, prize money and ranking distinction which determines the value to a TV event in my view.

sennafan24 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2023 10:17 am I don't think that an event isn't a major just because it isn't a ranking event btw.

Given the prize money involved I had few issues with people deeming the PL as a major. Neither would I complain if someone claimed the GSOD was a major before it became a ranking event.

As I posted, it's a combination of prestige, prize money and ranking distinction which determines the value to a TV event in my view.

A boring old debate, but this is my view of the PDC Premier events:
Worlds

Matchplay

Grand Slam
PL
Grand Prix

UK Open

The rest

Borderline for me

Some good posts in this thread but I think he needs a big tv title just to cross said borderline

Yes
Enough major finals to prove it

If he is then so are Jenkins, Baxter etc.

Again, this comes down to where someone personally draws the line as to what counts as elite.

I'm pretty stingy.

I expected Randall to be similar. But here we are.

sennafan24 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2023 5:50 pm Again, this comes down to where someone personally draws the line as to what counts as elite.

I'm pretty stingy.

I expected Randall to be similar. But here we are.

The elite is the top 32?

FFS, agree on a defintion of "elite" and close the thread.

sennafan24 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2023 5:50 pm Again, this comes down to where someone personally draws the line as to what counts as elite.

I'm pretty stingy.

I expected Randall to be similar. But here we are.

Just a shame you were not as stingy with the quality of posts you allow from Thorn on here eh!!

Off-topic Dave.

Please don't do that.

thegentle wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2023 6:40 am Duzza is a strange one as he was there or thereabouts, won his big TV title but then completely faded away (indeed you could argue Premier League finals night was the beginning of his decline)

Durrant's form had been fading for weeks prior to him winning the 2020 Premier League title on 15 October in Coventry. He beat Anderson in the semis 10-9, in a poor quality match by his own admission and had survived 4 match darts. In the final, Durrant played somewhat better to beat Aspinall 11-8. Durrant's form peaked during Premier League nights behind closed doors in Milton Keynes in August 2020, where he was particularly brilliant at clinical finishing.

Durrant had also been leading the table after the last pre-Covid lockdown night during the 2020 Premier League, in Liverpool on 12 March.

Long Covid sadly put paid to Duzza. Was going to win more majors in the PDC without any reasonable doubt.

sennafan24 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2023 9:06 am What hurts Duzza is that he spent much of his prime as a big fish in a small pond. His chief rival during the BDO's Golden Era was McGeeney, who while a good player was nowhere near the same level as MVG, Gando, Wright and others in the PDC.

Had his game not fallen off a cliff in late 2020 he would have probably made my list. He would have surely won more PDC TV events and been high in the rankings for a sustained period of time.

It's a shame that he didn't get a bit more time with his usual good form.

No.

Last 8 at the Worlds not elite enough?

He made the final.