all time england test 11

[Randall]

with talk of this england team being the best ever how many would make an all time england 11?

who would you pick? would we go by cold statistics of players of the past or rely on players we have seen with our own eyes?

one or two pick themselves, botham etc but who would be the other 10?

[Randall]

hutton and sutcliffe by the cold stats would be the openers, i have a romantic leaning towards gooch though!

[M H]

What a topic, would be easier to do a worst England 11. Do we include only players we've watched or those that we've seen the stats?

Botham I totally agree as an all timer but I can't split Illingworth and Brearley for the captaincy. Going back you'd have to put Jardine into the mix.

[Randall]

id want a captain who was worth his place so sadly brearly would be a no for me.

when we're picking the best players of all time they shouldnt need an inspirational captain.

[Dartfrog]

I'd stick Stephen hawking in there, i'm not sure he's ever failed a test.
Maybe his swimming one but apart from that a clean sweep.

[Furious Wolfie 180]

Boycott for me makes the cut.

Average of almost 48 on uncovered pitches facing some of the greatest bowling line-ups of all time.

By todays standards you can add another 10 to that average.

[M H]

My vote for keeper would go to Alan Knott. Flawless with the gloves and often made decent contributions with the bat.

[Randall]

if we limit it to people we have seen play even in grainy old black and white id go for gooch and boycott opening, botham is clearly the all rounder, knott is behind the stumps, larwood and trueman can have thee new ball with willis as first change and laker being the spinner.

the middle order is a bit tougher.

[M H]

Alan Lamb if I remember rightly seemed the most adept at handling the West Indian Bowlers so I'd put him forward as 4th or 5th in the order. I'm thinking of another opener for number 3.

[Randall]

lamb as much as i liked him had a poor average and never made a score over 150.

[M H]

I was thinking Gower for his class but so many times he got himself out cheaply wafting outside his off stump.

[Randall]

you would want a left hander in the top six, he is as good as i can think of, him or thorpe.

[Randall]

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/player/9014.html

[M H]

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/player/9014.html

That appears to be number 3 sorted so if Gower's 4 we need fifth then I think we're done

[Randall]

im just looking down the list of all time england averages and am amazed to see ian bell so near the top.

no disrespect to bell, he is a decent player but the pitches must be responsible for him averaging nearly as much as viv richards surely.

as for the number 5, if we disregard all the 20-50s ones we havent seen play it comes down to

pieterson, smith, thorpe, any others to throw in the hat?

[M H]

I'd throw Gatting in the mix but out of the names mentioned so far Thorpe would be my pick

[Randall]

gattings average was little better than lambs as i recall.

[M H]

So far:

Gooch
Boycott
Barrington
Gower
?
Botham
Knott
Truman
Laker
Larwood
Willis

[Randall]

id like to have a left arm quick or a wrist spinner instead off willis but we havent produced any of note that i can think of?

[M H]

Or he could be replced with another all rounder?