The evolution of dartboards (sponsored by Randall and Rogg)

[meetthefeebles]

I'm not sure there is a great deal left to add. Anyone with a pair of eyes can see what has been happening - Christ, just whack an old episode of bullseye or one of the world title games (in either code) from the 1980s or 1990s from YouTube and the difference in trebles especially is obvious.

Each time they introduce a new 'HD' board, the field average increases and the top sixteen or so players 'improve' markedly.

The only real question for those still interested is just how much of a difference it makes.

I can tell you are new to this forum

It's an 'all darts forum thing' though, isn't it? Pretty much been debated, fruitlessly, for years and years.

I agree with the last sentence of your previous post btw.

So should anyone sensible. I'm well aware that there are lots on darts forums who do not seem to be so

There is simply no realistic way to measure what the impact is. Years ago I actually wasted a few minutes of life trying to map tournament averages to the various different new boards as they came out. I don't have the figures and haven't for years, but I found about a 5-8 point improvement across the top players for each time, which then sort of stabilised for a bit and then sometimes actually decreased as players 'responded' to Taylor, Taylor and Barney and later Taylor and MvG hitting berserk averages. Then a new board came out...

[meetthefeebles]

Now we have a thread for it, there's no need to fret about it in all the other ones!

Nobody is taking the past away from you ok folks.

They try. For example, MvG's recent and current struggles, Taylor is the greatest because he overcame such things faster and dominated over a long period of time. For a lot of 2007, and early 2008 especially, Taylor had lost the aura among other darts players. He got it back 2008-2010 better than ever before, and many blamed Peter Manley taking down the board and giving it to someone in the front row after he had smashed Taylor in a Premier League match in Coventry on 21 February 2008. Taylor was fuming. "That will never happen again", he shouted at Rod Harrington as he left the stage. Taylor then won 61 tournaments between March 2008 and September 2010.

There are loads of things you can legitimately blame umpteen dart for. Taylor going berserk circa 2008 isn't one imo

[sennafan24]

Now we have a thread for it, there's no need to fret about it in all the other ones!

Nobody is taking the past away from you ok folks.

They try. For example, MvG's recent and current struggles, Taylor is the greatest because he overcame such things faster and dominated over a long period of time. For a lot of 2007, and early 2008 especially, Taylor had lost the aura among other darts players. He got it back 2008-2010 better than ever before, and many blamed Peter Manley taking down the board and giving it to someone in the front row after he had smashed Taylor in a Premier League match in Coventry on 21 February 2008. Taylor was fuming. "That will never happen again", he shouted at Rod Harrington as he left the stage. Taylor then won 61 tournaments between March 2008 and September 2010.

Not that I disagree, but Taylor's absolute peaks came in 3 years spurts. Firstly, 2000-2002 then 2008-2010.

MVG's absolute peak lasted a similar length of time 2015-2018. Will he ever regain that form? At the moment it looks not, but who knows?

I find it difficult to compare 90s Taylor + 2003-2007 Taylor with 2019-2023 MVG.

[Rogg]

The facts are undeniable. However it isn’t the modern day players fault and therefore shouldn’t be used as a factor to discredit the numbers they hit

It mattered in one event. That was the home tour when different conditions were in play for each player in the same 'match'.

I'm sure we all have a slice of genuine interest in the topic for the sake of information, of course. But the bulk of the fascination clearly and openly comes from frustration.

[oche balboa]

I'm not sure there is a great deal left to add. Anyone with a pair of eyes can see what has been happening - Christ, just whack an old episode of bullseye or one of the world title games (in either code) from the 1980s or 1990s from YouTube and the difference in trebles especially is obvious.

Each time they introduce a new 'HD' board, the field average increases and the top sixteen or so players 'improve' markedly.

The only real question for those still interested is just how much of a difference it makes.

This. Its that simple

[The Thorn]

I'm not sure there is a great deal left to add. Anyone with a pair of eyes can see what has been happening - Christ, just whack an old episode of bullseye or one of the world title games (in either code) from the 1980s or 1990s from YouTube and the difference in trebles especially is obvious.

Each time they introduce a new 'HD' board, the field average increases and the top sixteen or so players 'improve' markedly.

The only real question for those still interested is just how much of a difference it makes.

This. Its that simple

Thanks for your addition mate

[oche balboa]

Still would love darts players to have a tournament on an old board (Never will happen) just to see what happens

But the Blade 3 is the ultimate board

[meetthefeebles]

The facts are undeniable. However it isn’t the modern day players fault and therefore shouldn’t be used as a factor to discredit the numbers they hit

That's fair enough really, as long as people are honest about what is happening. It is the fundamental dishonesty which grates, done as it is intentionally by those with vested interests in doing it.

[The Thorn]

The facts are undeniable. However it isn’t the modern day players fault and therefore shouldn’t be used as a factor to discredit the numbers they hit

That's fair enough really, as long as people are honest about what is happening. It is the fundamental dishonesty which grates, done as it is intentionally by those with vested interests in doing it.

And the opposite is also true with sour Taylor fans denying MVG has surpassed him in terms of quality

[Rogg]

Now we have a thread for it, there's no need to fret about it in all the other ones!

Nobody is taking the past away from you ok folks.

They try. For example, MvG's recent and current struggles, Taylor is the greatest because he overcame such things faster and dominated over a long period of time. For a lot of 2007, and early 2008 especially, Taylor had lost the aura among other darts players. He got it back 2008-2010 better than ever before, and many blamed Peter Manley taking down the board and giving it to someone in the front row after he had smashed Taylor in a Premier League match in Coventry on 21 February 2008. Taylor was fuming. "That will never happen again", he shouted at Rod Harrington as he left the stage. Taylor then won 61 tournaments between March 2008 and September 2010.

'They try'

Mate! Why not just ignore the fuckers?

The 12 year-olds running around on twitter swallowing everything as the best thing evaaaaaaa. It will come to them too when they're older. Their favourite things will also come to be regarded as quaint and inferior.

[sennafan24]

Now we have a thread for it, there's no need to fret about it in all the other ones!

Nobody is taking the past away from you ok folks.

They try. For example, MvG's recent and current struggles, Taylor is the greatest because he overcame such things faster and dominated over a long period of time. For a lot of 2007, and early 2008 especially, Taylor had lost the aura among other darts players. He got it back 2008-2010 better than ever before, and many blamed Peter Manley taking down the board and giving it to someone in the front row after he had smashed Taylor in a Premier League match in Coventry on 21 February 2008. Taylor was fuming. "That will never happen again", he shouted at Rod Harrington as he left the stage. Taylor then won 61 tournaments between March 2008 and September 2010.

There are loads of things you can legitimately blame umpteen dart for. Taylor going berserk circa 2008 isn't one imo

PT13 did add some more detail to Taylor's 2008 upswing in form previously.

At the start of the 2008 Premier League, Taylor stopped using his Unicorn Phase 2 darts (what Sid Waddell called the "knitting needles"), and started using a thicker dart. Initially, it didn't work, as Taylor lost 3 of his first 4 Premier League matches. People were either writing him off or shouting at him to go back to his old darts like the year before. In week 4, Manley beat Taylor 8-3, took the board down and gave it to someone in the front row. That seemed to motivate Taylor like nothing else had since Bristow in the 1980s. Taylor also discovered his wife's old darts, which were John Lowe Unicorn darts, and started using them. He got Unicorn to make a very similar set of darts. He then beat Gobshite Mardle 8-0, and thrashed Barney 8-3 with an amazing performance, while he started dominating floor events to ridiculous levels in March 2008. The fear factor was back, and in some ways bigger than ever before. This surge of Taylor's barely let up all the way to October 2010.

[PT13]

Also, in addition to the boards, there's the fact that starting with Phil Taylor and the "Uniboffin" in 2008, when Taylor's form went through the roof, there has also been an increasing focus scientifically on the darts missiles themselves.

Could you elaborate on this please?

Phil Taylor lost the 2007 World Championship final to Raymond van Barneveld in a sudden death leg. Despite the very high standard, Phil knew that something had to change. He tried changing his darts in early 2007, but it didn't work out, so he switched back. That seemed to return his old form for a while, but a few months later all the old problems came back, and Barney took over for a while, then James Wade, as Taylor's form became much more erratic and inconsistent.

The 2008 World Championship saw Taylor beat MvG, Walsh and Tabern by small margins, struggling hard to win, and then Taylor lost to Mardel. Taylor then changed darts again, the new ones having thicker barrels, and again it didn't work out initially. Taylor lost 3 of his first 4 matches in the 2008 Premier League, and it was night 4 when Manley beat him. Taylor then discovered old John Lowe darts that Phil's then wife Yvonne had, and started practicing with them and he loved them. Taylor got Unicorn to make a similar set of darts, and he was working with some physicist at Unicorn about how missiles fly through the air, aiming at creating a perfect dart. Taylor form exploded in March 2008, went through the roof. He was winning floor events at a canter and his Premier League form also went great. A few more tweaks were made to the darts, including changing the barrel from silver to gold to black. Taylor said black made the treble target seem even bigger.

After this, and Taylor's huge surge in form, and the huge surge in prize money available too, everyone was going crazy for this darts technology stuff that they hadn't previously done. This has played its part, along with the changing from SD to HD boards after the 2014 World Championship, in increasing overall standards in depth and the averages.

[Rogg]

Anyway I appear to be shrieking again, sorry about that.

[The Thorn]

Anyway I appear to be shrieking again, sorry about that.

No problem mate here's a hug <3

[meetthefeebles]

Now we have a thread for it, there's no need to fret about it in all the other ones!

Nobody is taking the past away from you ok folks.

They try. For example, MvG's recent and current struggles, Taylor is the greatest because he overcame such things faster and dominated over a long period of time. For a lot of 2007, and early 2008 especially, Taylor had lost the aura among other darts players. He got it back 2008-2010 better than ever before, and many blamed Peter Manley taking down the board and giving it to someone in the front row after he had smashed Taylor in a Premier League match in Coventry on 21 February 2008. Taylor was fuming. "That will never happen again", he shouted at Rod Harrington as he left the stage. Taylor then won 61 tournaments between March 2008 and September 2010.

Not that I disagree, but Taylor's absolute peaks came in 3 years spurts. Firstly, 2000-2002 then 2008-2010.

MVG's absolute peak lasted a similar length of time 2015-2018. Will he ever regain that form? At the moment it looks not, but who knows?

I find it difficult to compare 90s Taylor + 2003-2007 Taylor with 2019-2023 MVG.

I hate Taylor, always have and will, but I can say with as much confidence as I can for a man with no scientific basis for saying so that the prime version of him would be smashing in 110+ averages in for fun on these boards. And then some.

His averages back when boards had fucking staples in them were regularly higher than a bloke who today played (and lost) a WC semi-final. The numbers he posted when he went berserk circa 2009 were ridiculous.

[sennafan24]

Phil Taylor lost the 2007 World Championship final to Raymond van Barneveld in a sudden death leg. Despite the very high standard, Phil knew that something had to change. He tried changing his darts in early 2007, but it didn't work out, so he switched back. That seemed to return his old form for a while, but a few months later all the old problems came back, and Barney took over for a while, then James Wade, as Taylor's form became much more erratic and inconsistent.

The 2008 World Championship saw Taylor beat MvG, Walsh and Tabern by small margins, struggling hard to win, and then Taylor lost to Mardel. Taylor then changed darts again, the new ones having thicker barrels, and again it didn't work out initially. Taylor lost 3 of his first 4 matches in the 2008 Premier League, and it was night 4 when Manley beat him. Taylor then discovered old John Lowe darts that Phil's then wife Yvonne had, and started practicing with them and he loved them. Taylor got Unicorn to make a similar set of darts, and he was working with some physicist at Unicorn about how missiles fly through the air, aiming at creating a perfect dart. Taylor form exploded in March 2008, went through the roof. He was winning floor events at a canter and his Premier League form also went great. A few more tweaks were made to the darts, including changing the barrel from silver to gold to black. Taylor said black made the treble target seem even bigger.

After this, and Taylor's huge surge in form, and the huge surge in prize money available too, everyone was going crazy for this darts technology stuff that they hadn't previously done. This has played its part, along with the changing from SD to HD boards after the 2014 World Championship, in increasing overall standards in depth and the averages.

Cheers.

I thought it was along those lines, just wanted to make sure.

Interesting point about "darts technology" too.

[meetthefeebles]

The facts are undeniable. However it isn’t the modern day players fault and therefore shouldn’t be used as a factor to discredit the numbers they hit

That's fair enough really, as long as people are honest about what is happening. It is the fundamental dishonesty which grates, done as it is intentionally by those with vested interests in doing it.

And the opposite is also true with sour Taylor fans denying MVG has surpassed him in terms of quality

But that isn't remotely true, is it?

[The Thorn]

The facts are undeniable. However it isn’t the modern day players fault and therefore shouldn’t be used as a factor to discredit the numbers they hit

That's fair enough really, as long as people are honest about what is happening. It is the fundamental dishonesty which grates, done as it is intentionally by those with vested interests in doing it.

And the opposite is also true with sour Taylor fans denying MVG has surpassed him in terms of quality

But that isn't remotely true, is it?

What part of my statement isn't true?

[ChrisW]

It's not as simple as board technology changing as with any sport. Dart technology has improved. Players are improving. Diet, preparation, sleep, management, psychology.
All of it adds a point or two. Not one factor but many.
The boards thing has always been an obsession on forums because it was a BDO v PDC thing. Now both WDF and PDC use Winmau it still continues what does that tell you?

[PT13]

Now we have a thread for it, there's no need to fret about it in all the other ones!

Nobody is taking the past away from you ok folks.

They try. For example, MvG's recent and current struggles, Taylor is the greatest because he overcame such things faster and dominated over a long period of time. For a lot of 2007, and early 2008 especially, Taylor had lost the aura among other darts players. He got it back 2008-2010 better than ever before, and many blamed Peter Manley taking down the board and giving it to someone in the front row after he had smashed Taylor in a Premier League match in Coventry on 21 February 2008. Taylor was fuming. "That will never happen again", he shouted at Rod Harrington as he left the stage. Taylor then won 61 tournaments between March 2008 and September 2010.

Not that I disagree, but Taylor's absolute peaks came in 3 years spurts. Firstly, 2000-2002 then 2008-2010.

MVG's absolute peak lasted a similar length of time 2015-2018. Will he ever regain that form? At the moment it looks not, but who knows?

I find it difficult to compare 90s Taylor + 2003-2007 Taylor with 2019-2023 MVG.

Another huge Taylor spurt was 1997-mid 1998. After Taylor won his 6th World Championship title in 1998, Sid Waddell was saying in the studio that the other players may as well go home for the next 10 years unless they improve drastically. Before the 1999 World Championship final, however, Sid was predicting Manley to beat Taylor.