Now They Hit The Wrinklies!

[M H]

I quite agree - standards of care in this country leaves a lot to be desired.

But this digresses from the fact that yesterday's Budget was a socialist budget and definitely not what you'd call a Tory Budget. But rather than say, 'Fair play, that's a start', you simply look for one area that you don't like and rip on that.

I am by no means a high earner (no, really) but it does sicken me to think that if I did work my way up, the percentage of tax I pay would rise. If everyone paid the same percentage of tax, high earners would naturally be paying more.

The Tories have had a collossal mess to clear up after thirteen years of pissing money up the wall. It won't happen over night and it is not fair to target the successful.

What we do need though, and no Party will do this, is a complete rethink on how much money we allow to leave these shores. And end to foreign aid to countries that are wealthier than us - indeed all countries while we have our elderly and sick having to cope with such poor care and conditions.


A complete withdrawal of all troops from foreign states and the associated huge slash in our military costs. (Sorry, Gonk - I respect you and what you do and this is not personal).

There are many other areas where fairer and more reasonable cuts can be made but I now have a lesson to go to - back soon.

I agree with a lot of the points you make, especially aid to countries like India and Russia and whilst having the upmost respect for the troops and what they do there is an area to save substantially.

Currency control was lifted by Thatcher and no government since has had the balls to reinstate it.

I disagree with the budget being a socialist budget as it was far from it. The raising of personal allowances is always welcome but again that benefits the higher earners more than the lower in terms of hard cash, always has and unless the allowance is restricted to the basic rate it always will. We're I earning over £150,000 I wouldn't have a problem with the top slice being taxed at 50%

[Noisycrowds]

damn thought this thread was about MH Bashing

[J Y Kelly]

In your efforts to slag off the Tories no matter what they do, you have failed to see that this is exactly the Budget that Labour would have liked to deliver. A considerable amount has been taken from the 'rich' and moved down to the 'poor'. This is a socialist budget.

You (like your beloved party) are so blinded by jealousy of those who have had more success in their lives, you cannot bring yourself to admit that the Tories have infact delivered a reasonable budget indeed. Although, why people who have success in their lives SHOULD abide by a 45% tax band, I have no idea.

The problem is, you Socialists cannot abide the thought that someone might have a quid more in their pockets than you have.

As I learned many moons ago.


Anyone under 25 who votes Tory has no heart, and anyone over 30 who doesn't has no brain.

[gonk]

I agree with you on the military side of things, we need to make cutbacks and we are doing so - just in the wrong areas. Did you know that once you reach the rank of Air Commodore and above that your pension is just full pay until you die? Which is £100k plus, this also is the same for the army and navy equivalent. I could go well into the ins and outs of how to save money in the forces but it's not worth it

[Sprocket501]

In your efforts to slag off the Tories no matter what they do, you have failed to see that this is exactly the Budget that Labour would have liked to deliver. A considerable amount has been taken from the 'rich' and moved down to the 'poor'. This is a socialist budget.

You (like your beloved party) are so blinded by jealousy of those who have had more success in their lives, you cannot bring yourself to admit that the Tories have infact delivered a reasonable budget indeed. Although, why people who have success in their lives SHOULD abide by a 45% tax band, I have no idea.

The problem is, you Socialists cannot abide the thought that someone might have a quid more in their pockets than you have.

As I learned many moons ago.


Anyone under 25 who votes Tory has no heart, and anyone over 30 who doesn't has no brain.

Very glib.

[Stran]

A complete withdrawal of all troops from foreign states and the associated huge slash in our military costs. (Sorry, Gonk - I respect you and what you do and this is not personal).

Huge slash in our military costs , so in other words you saying you want MORE military people out of jobs than already has happened with the VERS and Redudancies that have happened already.

I agree the military can save alot of money but at the moment they are saving it in all the wrong areas , my company for example we work side by side with the royal navy(we are there supply ships)and we have just had 25% of our company work force slashed , thats more than 400 jobs gone.

Pulling out all of our military from all foreign states is just a ridiculous idea in my opinion , and the same goes for turning our Navy into a costal defence force which if the cuts you suggest to happen happen is what our navy will become.

The increase to the personal allowance will be welcomed by alot but with so many its a case of giving you with one hand and taking it right back with another , for a personal example come the first of april i know have to pay 1.2% extra per month into my pension , in which ill recieve less for my pension when i retire. So paying more money into something to get less back. Also this isnt the only pension increase i have another one the following april as well.
So although my personal allowance has gone up , im now paying more towards my pension(although i concede this is a total different debate for another thread) but just an example of the government giving you money at one place and then taking it away at another.

Now the fuel dont even get me started on that , the price of fuel in the uk is just getting ridiculous and is going to be going up to 3.4p a litre which will take the average to £1.45 a liter ! Now ive only been driving for 10 years but 10 years ago it was only 80p a liter , the amount of tax the we pay in the uk on fuel is just ridiculous , if they keep going the way the goign to end up with blockades again.

but really can the budget always please everyone ???

[Sprocket501]

Good post, Stran and not much I can take issue with.

Your last question is pertinent though and this leads me back to my original point in my first post on this thread. There was so much in this budget that should please Labour voters. Yet, they just cannot bring themselves to admit it preferring instead to stay behind their 'Evil Tories' facade. You could almost see Miliband squirming yesterday as he sat there thinking, 'How the fuck am I going to oppose this?'

I have always voted Tory but even I could commend how well Blair hit the ground running in the first 12 months of his stint as PM.

Then the spend, spend, spend started and it was clear what was going to happen. The fact that there was no credible opposition meant that it went on for thirteen years instead of four or five. However, my point remains, even die hard Conservative voters could give Blair his dues in the early months. Even the Mail did, as I remember.

So hard for the 'Socialists' to do the same. And as much as I like MH and indeed have alot of respect for him in many issues, starting this thread but then admitting he manipulated the system to get his Loan Payment Protection money back and not using any of it to help 'The Wrinklies' leaves his argument as typically empty and hypocritical as most that come out of anti-Tory mouths.

[M H]

Sprocket, my PPI reclaim is nothing to do with a budget that rewarded those that needed it least.

There were good points in the budget, the reduction of Corporation Tax is a prime example but overall it was a tax neutral budget. That being the case for the richest 5% of the population to receive a tax cut someone had to suffer, in this instance the pensioners and I feel that's plain wrong.

Added to the fact that deferring the reduction in the top rate for twelve months will result in people drawing less this coming tax year and more in the following. This will cost far more than the government estimate

[Randall]

im better off according to the budget calculator so its not all bad.

[Stran]

This will cost far more than the government estimate

but when they raised the tax to 50p it generated no where near the income they thought it would , and its not as if it was even close to there expectations

[M H]

The stats used Stran don't even cover one ficsal year mate. How can a judgement be made over such a short period of time?

I'll guarantee that the yield will be less this coming year because of the perfect tax planning opportunity the government gave people like me

[Stran]

wasnt it only meant to be a temporary measure , to gain the income str8 away ? so if its not working ????

Time will tell , you may be right and i can concede that , but it was meant to be a temporary measure so how long should it of been at 50p for ?

[M H]

In my mind till the economy's in a far better shape mate. Unemployment falling, living standards rising, we're all in this together!

[Stran]

and then after 3 years of the 50p rate and still hasnt gained the income the government wanted , and not even close to it , would you then concede that it isnt working or would you want it to be in permantly ?

[M H]

I'd concede instantly in that case mate as I hope they do when they realise the stamp duty increase wont go anywhere near covering the loss

[Stran]

Fair enough then but as like everything else cant please everyone on everything , i think ive just came to my view alot earlier than you would come to yours if it was kept at 50p , but saying that ive maybe came to my conclusion far too early and not gave it a chance , which is highly probable

but if your bored you can read the hmrc report http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/budget2012/exche ... x-2042.pdf

Page 27 and 28 an intersting read in the above




The change to gambling tax for companies can only be a good thing and hopefully stop alot of them having their HQs abroad.

but with 2.4b being saved in the cost of operations in afghanistan and only £100m of that being given back to troops accomodation (albeit there will be council tax relief but hardly a drop in the ocean of the 2.4b being saved) i think that alot more of this money should go towards our troops and their kits ! but i am biased

the increase on fags doesnt affect me in the slightest as i dont smoke , but i was just in gibraltar there , and a packet of cigs was less than £2.75 to buy so just shows how much money the government make from that !

The new cap on tax reliefs set at 25% is only going to harm charities in my opinion...

[M H]

Changing the method of collecting gaming tax is also a good measure as are other anti avoidance measures they say they'll take.

I smoke but am not whinging about them going up 37p a pack as that's inevitable, but fuel's a different matter and Oche was right earlier when he raised it.

With every rise in the oil price the government's take increases and they should be willing to adjust accordingly (regardless of who's in power) to ensure they only take what they targeted. Fuel inflation effects everything we buy and our ability to maintain a car, I cannot work without mine and reckon there's a good few million in the same position on lower incomes. Home carers being a prime example

[Stran]

Thing about the fuel is , that i live 55miles away from where my son lives , so im up and down the road alot and it costs me a fortune. Now im not complaining of needing to travel to see my son , far from it , i realised i was going to need to do that when i moved away. But the governments take on fuel is jsut ridiculous , if i was paying the price for fuel for what it was then i wouldnt be complainining the slightest.

As you say alot of people rely on their car for their work , they need to sort it out !!

[M H]

Thing about the fuel is , that i live 55miles away from where my son lives , so im up and down the road alot and it costs me a fortune. Now im not complaining of needing to travel to see my son , far from it , i realised i was going to need to do that when i moved away. But the governments take on fuel is jsut ridiculous , if i was paying the price for fuel for what it was then i wouldnt be complainining the slightest.

As you say alot of people rely on their car for their work , they need to sort it out !!

Yes, it's a major issue as even those that don't drive are affected indirectly by the price of fuel

[Oche Balboa]

I Have to say as a Tory voter all my life, i am still not feeling much from this current administation, I think Cameron is doing a good job but the rest apart from Hague are fucking most things up, how Ken Clarke is still in a job i do not know. I was impressed with David Davis on Question Time, i believe its time Cameron swallowed his pride and gave him a top level job

The man is excellent and should be our next Prime Minister