5 years on from the 2011 world championship...

[Justin Credible]

agree ...more a case of him simply not good enough to live with the elite than be a choker

remember he did miss a double 12 for a nine darter years back...must do a myers and google it

[Rogg]

I remember some long drawn out matches at lakeshite and thinking to myself, " what the fuck is wrong with me, why in the blue fuck am I watching this shit"

That was one of those games, not sure why exactly but when cloudy memory thinks of those games I get flashbacks of glen moody's dancing.
Its like flashbacks from overuse of paper suns in the late 80s

Not just at Lakeside, there was a best of 9 PDC worlds match between Dennis Smith and Ovens one year that I stuck with to the death... guess we're spoilt nowadays and don't feel the need to put ourselves through such suffering for a darts fix.

Here we go, New Year's Day, 2003. Smith 5-1 Ovens. Surprised by that, I've always remembered it as being 5-4, such was the grinding fucking misery of it all. That was a long format for a last 16 match, I think they must have changed that soon after, thank god.

[Rogg]

The 15-year comparison. I think this is a ranking list from some point soon before the 2001 World Matchplay. A bit tricky coz there are definitely players in this list who were BDO at the time, but had a PDC ranking having played in a small number of PDC events as well. Adams at 27 is the obvious one... if you want to replace anyone, I've extended the 2001 rankings at the bottom.

15 years later, only Taylor and Beaton are still in the top 32. Taylor was ranked 3, Beaton 21 - pretty much the same as today ffs.




July(?) 2001 - 2016

1 Peter Manley - Michael van Gerwen
2 Alan Warriner - Gary Anderson
4 Rod Harrington - Adrian Lewis
5 Dennis Priestley - Peter Wright
6 John Part - James Wade
7 Ronnie Baxter - Robert Thornton
8 Dave Askew - Michael Smith
9 Shayne Burgess - Raymond van Barneveld
10 Denis Ovens - Jelle Klaasen
11 Roland Scholten - Dave Chisnall
12 Dennis Smith - Ian White
13 Keith Deller - Stephen Bunting
14 Colin Lloyd - Kim Huybrechts
15 Andy Jenkins - Vincent van der Voort
16 Peter Evison - Terry Jenkins
17 Richie Burnett - Mervyn King
18 John Lowe - Simon Whitlock
19 Chris Mason - Mensur Suljovic
20 Mick Manning - Brendan Dolan
22 Cliff Lazarenko - Benito van de Pas
23 Steve Brown - Justin Pipe
24 Alex Roy - Jamie Caven
25 Jamie Harvey - Mark Webster
26 Paul Lim - Andrew Gilding
27 Martin Adams - Gerwyn Price
28 Bob Anderson - Daryl Gurney
29 Kevin Painter - Andy Hamilton
30 Reg Harding - Wes Newton
31 Nigel Justice - John Henderson
32 Paul Williams - Jamie Lewis



33 Graeme Stoddart
34 Les Fitton
35 Robbie Widdows
36 Dan Lauby
37 John Ferrell
38 Garry Spedding
39 Les Hodkinson
40 Scott Cummings

[Rogg]

Looking at the 2001 top 10... is it fair to say that a PDC Premier League darts tour a few years before its time would have seen the PDC doing what the BDO would no doubt do today - cram it with faded 'big names' to prop it up?

[sennafan24]

I might be being a bit kind. But the class of 2001 doesn't look that bad.

Remember, Beaton also switched around this time, which gave them a bit more depth.

[cannibal]

Good thread and very interesting read. I think the ET certainly has been a plus for some of the players as already mentioned but I also think closing the tour via the tour card system has upped the ante as well. You either have the goods to get one or to keep it or you feck off to the CT. Quality players playing quality players week in and week out makes or breaks you. If I get time will go back and see what the difference was in prize money and how it was distributed.

[Justin Credible]

I might be being a bit kind. But the class of 2001 doesn't look that bad.

Remember, Beaton also switched around this time, which gave them a bit more depth.

this ^^

People see the list of name and presume they were shit but in reality those now jobbers were playing decent stuff at the time.

In 5-10 years time we will look back at dolan for example and think it must have been shit then but the reality was , as bad as dolan is now he was firing well at the time, same with hamilton, shit now, but throwing well enough to reach a world final.

In darts almost every player have a window of a couple of years before they burn out, that is why taylor, wade, lewis, barney are exceptions rather than the rule

Even peter wright is on the crest of a wave after a lifetime of jobbing, the pdc is so cut throat you have to maintain top form for so long most simply cannot maintain that over years

[Rogg]

I might be being a bit kind. But the class of 2001 doesn't look that bad.

Remember, Beaton also switched around this time, which gave them a bit more depth.

Oh I don't know, Mick Manning at 20 is rather alarming. But I will review my 'faded big names' comment from a couple of posts up. John Lowe and Bob Anderson still had a fair bit in the tank - the following year Lowe pushed Taylor all the way in the Matchplay semis, and Bob reached back to back world championship semi-finals a couple of years after that.

Beaton and the rest of the trickle of switchers was improving things further as you say.

Spineless hadn't switched obviously, and didn't, but on that 2001 ranking list he has 6 PDC events counting towards his ranking, the same number as Taylor. Most of the top 24 players have 9 events.

[Justin Credible]

I might be being a bit kind. But the class of 2001 doesn't look that bad.

Remember, Beaton also switched around this time, which gave them a bit more depth.

Oh I don't know, Mick Manning at 20 is rather alarming. But I will review my 'faded big names' comment from a couple of posts up. John Lowe and Bob Anderson still had a fair bit in the tank - the following year Lowe pushed Taylor all the way in the Matchplay semis, and Bob reached back to back world championship semi-finals a couple of years after that.

Beaton and the rest of the trickle of switchers was improving things further as you say.

Spineless hadn't switched obviously, and didn't, but on that 2001 ranking list he has 6 PDC events counting towards his ranking, the same number as Taylor. Most of the top 24 players have 9 events.

at the time, was the best match I ever saw, remember my brother ringing me to ask was I watching it was that good.

ok both just averaged a ton, which is common place, but over that length of match, the stage and what was at stake was a belter

[KingMervtheFirst]

Anyone noticed the funniest thing about the 2001 rankings? The guy at number 27. I thought he loathed the PDC?

That was also the era of the obscure English jobbers - Manning, Harding, Justice and so on.

[KingMervtheFirst]

I might be being a bit kind. But the class of 2001 doesn't look that bad.

Remember, Beaton also switched around this time, which gave them a bit more depth.

Oh I don't know, Mick Manning at 20 is rather alarming. But I will review my 'faded big names' comment from a couple of posts up. John Lowe and Bob Anderson still had a fair bit in the tank - the following year Lowe pushed Taylor all the way in the Matchplay semis, and Bob reached back to back world championship semi-finals a couple of years after that.

Beaton and the rest of the trickle of switchers was improving things further as you say.

Spineless hadn't switched obviously, and didn't, but on that 2001 ranking list he has 6 PDC events counting towards his ranking, the same number as Taylor. Most of the top 24 players have 9 events.

at the time, was the best match I ever saw, remember my brother ringing me to ask was I watching it was that good.

ok both just averaged a ton, which is common place, but over that length of match, the stage and what was at stake was a belter

It was also kind of Lowe's last hurrah. Didn't do much after that.

The Taylor-Part final was great too, and that really started their rivalry.

[Justin Credible]

I might be being a bit kind. But the class of 2001 doesn't look that bad.

Remember, Beaton also switched around this time, which gave them a bit more depth.

Oh I don't know, Mick Manning at 20 is rather alarming. But I will review my 'faded big names' comment from a couple of posts up. John Lowe and Bob Anderson still had a fair bit in the tank - the following year Lowe pushed Taylor all the way in the Matchplay semis, and Bob reached back to back world championship semi-finals a couple of years after that.

Beaton and the rest of the trickle of switchers was improving things further as you say.

Spineless hadn't switched obviously, and didn't, but on that 2001 ranking list he has 6 PDC events counting towards his ranking, the same number as Taylor. Most of the top 24 players have 9 events.

at the time, was the best match I ever saw, remember my brother ringing me to ask was I watching it was that good.

ok both just averaged a ton, which is common place, but over that length of match, the stage and what was at stake was a belter

It was also kind of Lowe's last hurrah. Didn't do much after that.

Yep, that was it for him
Ironically Bristows last hurrah was also a semi final spot against Taylor as well

[Rogg]

I might be being a bit kind. But the class of 2001 doesn't look that bad.

Remember, Beaton also switched around this time, which gave them a bit more depth.

Oh I don't know, Mick Manning at 20 is rather alarming. But I will review my 'faded big names' comment from a couple of posts up. John Lowe and Bob Anderson still had a fair bit in the tank - the following year Lowe pushed Taylor all the way in the Matchplay semis, and Bob reached back to back world championship semi-finals a couple of years after that.

Beaton and the rest of the trickle of switchers was improving things further as you say.

Spineless hadn't switched obviously, and didn't, but on that 2001 ranking list he has 6 PDC events counting towards his ranking, the same number as Taylor. Most of the top 24 players have 9 events.

at the time, was the best match I ever saw, remember my brother ringing me to ask was I watching it was that good.

ok both just averaged a ton, which is common place, but over that length of match, the stage and what was at stake was a belter

It was the night after Taylor did the 9-dart v Mason. He seemed a bit drained by what had happened the night before, so a resurgent Lowe was probably the last man he wanted to play. It was absolutely amazing, I seem to remember that Lowe had been 13-11 up? Taylor then had a similar match against Part in the final, in a match that was making of Part. Fuck me did Philth work hard to win that title. One of his greatest ever I'd say - not, as you say, for the averages he threw, but for grinding it out against inspired opponents who had both been beating him deep into the match.

Lowe at his best was a nightmare opponent. an immovable object.

[Rogg]

That was also the era of the obscure English jobbers - Manning, Harding, Justice and so on.

Those guys depressed me. Manning and Justice in particular looked utterly terrified on stage. They're essentially what the BDO's travel club is right now. In 2016!

[sennafan24]

If you look at the top 20, it's only really Deller and Evison who are about to go into tailspin. Other than Manning and a few others, the rest were all respectable throwers at the time.

With Painter climbing the ranks, and Beaton/Mardle on the horizon, the PDC didn't look half bad in 2001. Much better than I expected it would.

[Rogg]

Does anyone remember Burnett switching? Was that a big deal at the time?

[Justin Credible]

Does anyone remember Burnett switching? Was that a big deal at the time?

my memory at the time was it was pretty low key, certainly not the fanfare of barney obviously
King made headlines because of the controversy rather than his actual ability

Burnett already prior to switching played taylor in a cross code event and got battered, so when he did join the pdc he struggled so hardly set anything alight...kist like.

[Rogg]

Does anyone remember Burnett switching? Was that a big deal at the time?

my memory at the time was it was pretty low key, certainly not the fanfare of barney obviously
King made headlines because of the controversy rather than his actual ability

Burnett already prior to switching played taylor in a cross code event and got battered, so when he did join the pdc he struggled so hardly set anything alight...kist like.

Cheers. I remember Burnett playing the 2001(?) Matchplay final against Taylor, I believe his only PDC tv final as it turned out. He got nowhere near Taylor, very underwhelming, never a rivalry. A BDO legend, but little more than a curiosity in the PDC.

[sennafan24]

I'd say Burnett was more the Chizzy of his day.

A QF mainstay that made the odd final.

[Justin Credible]

or klaasen in the first few year, could pull out a decent performance but as liable to throw a heap of shit next time out