How much......

[sennafan24]

I wasn’t specifically referring to you regarding your first sentence.
Duzza can only beat what’s in front of him, it’s not his fault players have played poorly against him. As I’ve said previously to Randall, I think it’s some form of subconscious strength he has. His grinding game seems to drag players down, he certainly seems to be a bogey player for MVG.

For the most part, when players have played to the best of their ability, they have managed to beat Duzza. JC posted a review of Duzza's performances in the summer series that showed that.

[Randall]

The best moment in darts history

[HalloweenJack]

I wasn’t specifically referring to you regarding your first sentence.
Duzza can only beat what’s in front of him, it’s not his fault players have played poorly against him. As I’ve said previously to Randall, I think it’s some form of subconscious strength he has. His grinding game seems to drag players down, he certainly seems to be a bogey player for MVG.

For the most part, when players have played to the best of their ability, they have managed to beat Duzza. JC posted a review of Duzza's performances in the summer series that showed that.

I don’t even know who beat him tbh. I know Wade won one of the events. Maybe Duzza didn’t play to the beat of his abilities. You and I both know it’s on the TV where it counts, ask Ian White.

[SuperSwede]

Will there be astericks next to a world championship played in an empty room in Coventry though?
I suspect there will if hendo etc wins.
Please god let it happen.

Not in my opinion. Certainly can't judge based on who wins. So if it's one of the favourites then it's a regular event, but if not then it's suddenly less valid? That would be very unfair.

Exceptional circumstances happen all the time. This might be the first time for a darts WC but hardly the first in the history of sports. The players have to adapt and if Hendo does that the best then he will be world champ. Just as much of a world champ as Wright or Cross.

Exactly, weird results happen, Aspinall won the UK Open last year averaging under 90 in the final, he'd have been a dark horse for sure, but no more. Dimi played well in his Matchplay run, you wouldn't say there were any massively strange results there (apart from possibly the final, but, you know, Gando is prone to the odd stinker these days). MvG hasn't been on form, but in truth he wasn't really on top form before lockdown (UK Open aside), had a shocker at MK, but fair fucks to Whitlock who went toe to toe with him the other day and came out better

We've seen 4 majors (or 3 + PL) played out behind closed doors...

2018 UK Open - A first (and only) time major finalist in Cadby and Dave Pallett (never previously or since made it past L32 in TV event) and Robert Owen (never previously or since past L64 in a TV event) made the semi finals

2020 Matchplay - A first time major finalist and winner Dimitri (never previously beyond L8 in a TV major)

2020 Grand Prix - A first time major finalist in Dirk van Duivenbode (small sample and early in trajectory but never previously past L32 in a major)

2020 PL - Two debutants in the final, two of the best players in the world not making playoffs, first time someone other than THE dominant force in the game topping league phase


Are you and others going to claim these as coincidence? If you are you're focusing too much on thinking people are doing down what the achievers have achieved, for me the clear difference is behind closed doors the cream rises less often.

[thegentle]

Will there be astericks next to a world championship played in an empty room in Coventry though?
I suspect there will if hendo etc wins.
Please god let it happen.

Not in my opinion. Certainly can't judge based on who wins. So if it's one of the favourites then it's a regular event, but if not then it's suddenly less valid? That would be very unfair.

Exceptional circumstances happen all the time. This might be the first time for a darts WC but hardly the first in the history of sports. The players have to adapt and if Hendo does that the best then he will be world champ. Just as much of a world champ as Wright or Cross.

Exactly, weird results happen, Aspinall won the UK Open last year averaging under 90 in the final, he'd have been a dark horse for sure, but no more. Dimi played well in his Matchplay run, you wouldn't say there were any massively strange results there (apart from possibly the final, but, you know, Gando is prone to the odd stinker these days). MvG hasn't been on form, but in truth he wasn't really on top form before lockdown (UK Open aside), had a shocker at MK, but fair fucks to Whitlock who went toe to toe with him the other day and came out better

We've seen 4 majors (or 3 + PL) played out behind closed doors...

2018 UK Open - A first (and only) time major finalist in Cadby and Dave Pallett (never previously or since made it past L32 in TV event) and Robert Owen (never previously or since past L64 in a TV event) made the semi finals

2020 Matchplay - A first time major finalist and winner Dimitri (never previously beyond L8 in a TV major)

2020 Grand Prix - A first time major finalist in Dirk van Duivenbode (small sample and early in trajectory but never previously past L32 in a major)

2020 PL - Two debutants in the final, two of the best players in the world not making playoffs, first time someone other than THE dominant force in the game topping league phase


Are you and others going to claim these as coincidence? If you are you're focusing too much on thinking people are doing down what the achievers have achieved, for me the clear difference is behind closed doors the cream rises less often.

The 2018 UK Open was a weird event because it was so damn cold, saw some very odd results, especially early doors. Cadby is an odd one, on paper was clearly one of the most talented of the up and comers, I'm sure if he'd have been able to stay, he'd have built on it, but alas we all know what happened there.

I don't want to do the winners of each event a disservice but they're all capable on their day, especially with the draw opening up. The only thing that's really shocking of late is the form of MvG, so when that's mixed with Ando throwing turds occasionally, and Cross being unable to arrest his slump, (neither of which I would say are huge surprises) it lends itself to open tournaments

[Rogg]

Will there be astericks next to a world championship played in an empty room in Coventry though?
I suspect there will if hendo etc wins.
Please god let it happen.

Not in my opinion. Certainly can't judge based on who wins. So if it's one of the favourites then it's a regular event, but if not then it's suddenly less valid? That would be very unfair.

Exceptional circumstances happen all the time. This might be the first time for a darts WC but hardly the first in the history of sports. The players have to adapt and if Hendo does that the best then he will be world champ. Just as much of a world champ as Wright or Cross.

Exactly, weird results happen, Aspinall won the UK Open last year averaging under 90 in the final, he'd have been a dark horse for sure, but no more. Dimi played well in his Matchplay run, you wouldn't say there were any massively strange results there (apart from possibly the final, but, you know, Gando is prone to the odd stinker these days). MvG hasn't been on form, but in truth he wasn't really on top form before lockdown (UK Open aside), had a shocker at MK, but fair fucks to Whitlock who went toe to toe with him the other day and came out better

We've seen 4 majors (or 3 + PL) played out behind closed doors...

2018 UK Open - A first (and only) time major finalist in Cadby and Dave Pallett (never previously or since made it past L32 in TV event) and Robert Owen (never previously or since past L64 in a TV event) made the semi finals

2020 Matchplay - A first time major finalist and winner Dimitri (never previously beyond L8 in a TV major)

2020 Grand Prix - A first time major finalist in Dirk van Duivenbode (small sample and early in trajectory but never previously past L32 in a major)

2020 PL - Two debutants in the final, two of the best players in the world not making playoffs, first time someone other than THE dominant force in the game topping league phase


Are you and others going to claim these as coincidence? If you are you're focusing too much on thinking people are doing down what the achievers have achieved, for me the clear difference is behind closed doors the cream rises less often.

I think describing the PL finalists as 'Two debutants' precisely risks making them out to have been a couple of planks. One was already top of the PL pre-covid and the other is world #6 with a big TV title. Dimitri may never have previously gone beyond the last 8 (that's a thing?) but he'd done it four times recently and made a WS final.

Darts has been loosening up for a while longer than covid has been around, it seems to me. It has changed. The conditions (and the world) are weird now and there are many unusual factors swirling around but what I'm seeing is that it's possible to go way too far in explaining away the achievements of these players, maybe wishing them away sometimes. So it's about balance, is all.

[SuperSwede]

Will there be astericks next to a world championship played in an empty room in Coventry though?
I suspect there will if hendo etc wins.
Please god let it happen.

Not in my opinion. Certainly can't judge based on who wins. So if it's one of the favourites then it's a regular event, but if not then it's suddenly less valid? That would be very unfair.

Exceptional circumstances happen all the time. This might be the first time for a darts WC but hardly the first in the history of sports. The players have to adapt and if Hendo does that the best then he will be world champ. Just as much of a world champ as Wright or Cross.

Exactly, weird results happen, Aspinall won the UK Open last year averaging under 90 in the final, he'd have been a dark horse for sure, but no more. Dimi played well in his Matchplay run, you wouldn't say there were any massively strange results there (apart from possibly the final, but, you know, Gando is prone to the odd stinker these days). MvG hasn't been on form, but in truth he wasn't really on top form before lockdown (UK Open aside), had a shocker at MK, but fair fucks to Whitlock who went toe to toe with him the other day and came out better

We've seen 4 majors (or 3 + PL) played out behind closed doors...

2018 UK Open - A first (and only) time major finalist in Cadby and Dave Pallett (never previously or since made it past L32 in TV event) and Robert Owen (never previously or since past L64 in a TV event) made the semi finals

2020 Matchplay - A first time major finalist and winner Dimitri (never previously beyond L8 in a TV major)

2020 Grand Prix - A first time major finalist in Dirk van Duivenbode (small sample and early in trajectory but never previously past L32 in a major)

2020 PL - Two debutants in the final, two of the best players in the world not making playoffs, first time someone other than THE dominant force in the game topping league phase


Are you and others going to claim these as coincidence? If you are you're focusing too much on thinking people are doing down what the achievers have achieved, for me the clear difference is behind closed doors the cream rises less often.

I think describing the PL finalists as 'Two debutants' precisely risks making them out to have been a couple of planks. One was already top of the PL pre-covid and the other is world #6 with a big TV title. Dimitri may never have previously gone beyond the last 8 (that's a thing?) but he'd done it four times recently and made a WS final.

Darts has been loosening up for a while longer than covid has been around, it seems to me. It has changed. The conditions (and the world) are weird now and there are many unusual factors swirling around but what I'm seeing is that it's possible to go way too far in explaining away the achievements of these players, maybe wishing them away sometimes. So it's about balance, is all.

I lean more towards explaining the lack of performance of the top tier players in these conditions as opposed to explaining away the achievements of the players listed. They still walked the walk, i'm just saying I think circumstance dictated the hurdles in their way were lessened.

[TheMalteseDart]

Matt Edgars dome a video on this, not the most in depth stats in the world but in terms of averages it’s barely altered for the top players