Hillsborough Debate In The House Of Commons

[welsh]

Fair enough, the police and stewards failed in their duty of care to the supporters that day, and have to share some of the blame. But the supporters who turned up at Hillsborough without tickets and put pressure on the security to be let in, also have to shoulder some of the blame as well.

This is exactly what i've been thinking for years,Yes South Yorkshire police made mistakes that day But so did Liverpool fans by turning up without tickets.

[redman]

i think what most fair minded people (gaz on this subject you are excepted from the fair minded tag due to your bile, which by the way i would love to hear you spout in an ale house in liverpool for example) would accept is that the police , stewards, stadium controllers etc have a duty to deal with what happens in and around the ground that they are responsible for otherwise why have them there.

a situation was developing outside the stadium and around the entrances, surround roads etc which the police failed to control, they then failed further to properly look after the safety of the people in that situation by not taking the correct steps to control things and to deal with what was happening

that is where the blame lies - they could and should have taken a number of steps to ensure that people couldnt get near the entrances if they didnt have tickets, they should have delayed the kick off, they should have ensured that they communicated with the people outside the ground and acted to clear entrances etc - and most of all the decision to open a gate and allow people to go undirected and unattended into an already overcrowded centre pen when there was space in the side pens should not have been made

they failed in their duty and that is where the blame lies

it was their job as a whole operation to ensure public safety and to control the ground they were responsible for and for that someone/ a group is accountable and responsible

[The Ginge Reaper]

^^Ok, so what do you want to happen twenty+ years done the line? Serious question, as this issue puzzles me.

[redman]

^^Ok, so what do you want to happen twenty+ years done the line? Serious question, as this issue puzzles me.

me personally?

those responsible accepting their blame and a process carried out like it would be in any other situation where people have been grossly negligent in the carrying out of their duties leading to loss of life

[The Ginge Reaper]

^^Ok, so what do you want to happen twenty+ years done the line? Serious question, as this issue puzzles me.

me personally?

those responsible accepting their blame and a process carried out like it would be in any other situation where people have been grossly negligent in the carrying out of their duties leading to loss of life

And how will that help? How is that "justice"? The term is bandied around like you want retire chief superintendents to be thrown in jail.

[Mr Sheen]

^^Ok, so what do you want to happen twenty+ years done the line? Serious question, as this issue puzzles me.

me personally?

those responsible accepting their blame and a process carried out like it would be in any other situation where people have been grossly negligent in the carrying out of their duties leading to loss of life

And how will that help? How is that "justice"? The term is bandied around like you want retire chief superintendents to be thrown in jail.

If they made decisions that caused mass deaths, then why not? Should they not face the consequences of their decisions? They're happy to take honours when things go right.

[The Ginge Reaper]

I was asking Redman.

[Justin Credible]

first up Red, get your head out of your arse.

I am married to a girl who lived in liverpool for 14 years and all her family still live there.
I dont hate scousers if anything i have good time for them in general but face facts , you can blame the police for everything deflect blame all you like but no police forced the ticketless scum to get out of bed tavel to sheffield and enter a ground they had no right being in and then proceed to crush their fellow fans to death.

And the bandwagon of useless scousers climbing aboard begins again...for what ?
What the fuck justice do ye want ?

Everyone knows mistakes were made, and it was a tragedy, but what do ye want ?
Are people so retarded they cannot accept mistakes were made and time to let those who perished rest in peace without dragging it up for decades.

Or is this all about compo ?

Those who died without a ticket should not have any claims made or any compo paid to their families.

[redman]

^^Ok, so what do you want to happen twenty+ years done the line? Serious question, as this issue puzzles me.

me personally?

those responsible accepting their blame and a process carried out like it would be in any other situation where people have been grossly negligent in the carrying out of their duties leading to loss of life

And how will that help? How is that "justice"? The term is bandied around like you want retire chief superintendents to be thrown in jail.

if found guilty of gross misconduct /negligence and that lead to deaths then yes jail would be appropriate

[The Ginge Reaper]

^^Right, and how would that help 96 grieving families?

[Justin Credible]

^^Right, and how would that help 96 grieving families?

It would mean they wouldn't have to blame the members of their family & neighbours who went without tickets. Eases local tension.

good point snake, and dont forget about the all important compo.................

[Mr Sheen]

^^Right, and how would that help 96 grieving families?

It would mean they wouldn't have to blame the members of their family & neighbours who went without tickets. Eases local tension.

good point snake, and dont forget about the all important compo.................

You called?

[Justin Credible]

[Brett]

^^Right, and how would that help 96 grieving families?

It would mean they wouldn't have to blame the members of their family & neighbours who went without tickets. Eases local tension.

Does that happen? I was under the impression it was purely Liverpool united against the police/stewards in all of this

[welsh]

^^Ok, so what do you want to happen twenty+ years done the line? Serious question, as this issue puzzles me.

me personally?

those responsible accepting their blame and a process carried out like it would be in any other situation where people have been grossly negligent in the carrying out of their duties leading to loss of life

And how will that help? How is that "justice"? The term is bandied around like you want retire chief superintendents to be thrown in jail.

if found guilty of gross misconduct /negligence and that lead to deaths then yes jail would be appropriate

Ok jail would be appropriate if certain officers were found guilty of negligence but does that apply to the stewards and the fans who were also to blame for this tragic event ???

[Justin Credible]

dont be ridiculous welsh....liverpool fans are exempt from all blame, despite it was them that did the crushing.

[macca]

It's time to move on, lads.

Haha. Delicious!

will you still be obsessed by the pygmy's, by being directed to porn sites, by pykey's, by fat obese simpletons, by horsegob, by the bdo, by martin adams, by americans, by jews, etc etc etfuckingcetera for another 21 years like the last 12 months.

[Tungsten Terrorist]

No one who is human wants to see football supporters die at a football match its that simple regardless of team loyalty and opinion.
Liverpool supporters at that time did have a reputation of "Forcing the turnstile" and its my opinion that on that day their
ability to overpower entry at big games combined with bad police management lead to such an horrible disaster.

[Tungsten Terrorist]

No one who is human wants to see football supporters die at a football match its that simple regardless of team loyalty and opinion.
Liverpool supporters at that time did have a reputation of "Forcing the turnstile" and its my opinion that on that day their
ability to overpower entry at big games combined with bad police management lead to such an horrible disaster.

To be fair, a number of other clubs supporters had a similar reputation so it is a bit unfair to imply that it was Liverpool fans and not football fans in general who were guilty (I'm not sure that you are doing that but it reads that way to me). You could go deeper and ask why the riot fencing was there in the first place, I was as guilty as anyone in my younger days of pitch invasions etc so my own behaviour contributed to this. I don't like the fact that the authorities tried to exonerate themselves from blame but don't think some of the Liverpool fans failure to acknowledge their fellow fans responsibility helps either.

I dont imply it was just Liverpool fans that did this so you are quite correct. You sound as though you are fully aware of the activities of certain groups of teams supporters during the 80's and 90's SHx2.
Speaking of my own team one of their mob were called "The inter city jibbers" a name born from free entry and free passage throughout this country and Europe.
Like I have said Liverpool were unlucky that day but its a mixture of bad police management of bad fan behaviour that led to such an horrible event.

[Justin Credible]

It's time to move on, lads.

Haha. Delicious!

will you still be obsessed by the pygmy's, by being directed to porn sites, by pykey's, by fat obese simpletons, by horsegob, by the bdo, by martin adams, by americans, by jews, etc etc etfuckingcetera for another 21 years like the last 12 months.

you want to seriously get your head in order,

I suggest you read what you wrote.
Horsegob as you called him only comes on here for the sole purpose to stir shit.I dont post on DF so why is he here ?
As for my opinions on jews and americans, well you are holding things I said on DF almost a year ago against me, so get new material.

As for fat simpletons as you call them in your own words, I cannot help if they feel the need to come here in order to ingratiate themselves.As for jew yanks porn or whatever I stand by anything i say.

so go have a lie down my boy and come back with something of logic......