Boxing

[sennafan24]

Eubank Jr is nothing special.

He has improved since he teamed up with Roy Jones JNR, he was definitely a class above Williams last night. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Doesn't mean he's anything special. There are at least 2 boxers in England vastly superior to him.

Are you specifically referring to his weight class? There’s a few more if we are talking all weights. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

All weights.

I don't think Eubank will go much further in his own weightclass.

[HalloweenJack]

Go on then HJ.

Educate me on boxing.

Well let’s Talk Mike Tyson.
He doesn’t get in my top 10 list maybe too 15 His best wins were against a blown up light heavy in Spinks and a ring rusty past his best Larry Holmes ( I think Larry Holmes circa 1980 beats a prime Tyson.
As you implied on the other thread, a lot of ‘casuals’ rate Tyson as he was exciting and knocked a few out.
Any version of Mikey boy struggles against the likes of Lewis/Ali/Foreman/Liston and a few more.


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[HalloweenJack]

Eubank Jr is nothing special.

He has improved since he teamed up with Roy Jones JNR, he was definitely a class above Williams last night. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Doesn't mean he's anything special. There are at least 2 boxers in England vastly superior to him.

Are you specifically referring to his weight class? There’s a few more if we are talking all weights. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

All weights.

I don't think Eubank will go much further in his own weightclass.

I would Like to see him rematch BJS Saunders won rounds 1-7 in the original match but Eubank back just a bit too late.


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[sennafan24]

Go on then HJ. Educate me on boxing.

Well let’s Talk Mike Tyson. He doesn’t get in my top 10 list maybe too 15 His best wins were against a blown up light heavy in Spinks and a ring rusty past his best Larry Holmes ( I think Larry Holmes circa 1980 beats a prime Tyson. As you implied on the other thread, a lot of ‘casuals’ rate Tyson as he was exciting and knocked a few out. Any version of Mikey boy struggles against the likes of Lewis/Ali/Foreman/Liston and a few more. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ali and Lewis clearly had better careers. Therefore, they deserve to be ranked higher all-time. I don't think that's arguable.

However, Tyson was an absolute beast when he trained under Kevin Rooney. His decline coincided with his split from Rooney after the Spinks fight. He didn't look as good in his next bout against Bruno and never really looked like the same boxer again.

I disagree about the Holmes bout. I accept Holmes was getting on and took the bout on short notice. However, he was far from shot and I genuinely believe the result would have been similar if they boxed prime for prime. Note, I can't stand Tyson or Holmes as people, so I have no dog in this fight. Beyond the Holmes and Spinks bouts, Tyson beat some decent HWs in the 80s - Tubbs, Tucker, Thomas, etc. So his resume isn't as bad as you make out.

I'd back Prime Tyson against the likes of Joshua, Wilder and even Fury.

[The Thorn]

[Randall]

Holmes is hated due to the ali fight and generally underrated.
I'm not saying he would have beaten peak Tyson but damn he had one of the best Jabs out there which gave him the best weapon he needed to keep Tyson off him.

Styles make fights, look at the trouble frazier gave Ali, tyson had way more power and was far quicker.
Go figure

[sennafan24]

Holmes is hated due to the ali fight and generally underrated. I'm not saying he would have beaten peak Tyson but damn he had one of the best Jabs out there which gave him the best weapon he needed to keep Tyson off him. Styles make fights, look at the trouble frazier gave Ali, tyson had way more power and was far quicker. Go figure

Agreed about styles making fights.

Tyson was able to jab with Holmes btw:

[Randall]

Tyson had a good jab which he used to get inside but at 5'10 he is likely to be kept at range by a large reach disadvantage
The tucker fight is a good example and while he was a complete mess in it the Douglas fight a better one.

[HalloweenJack]

Holmes is hated due to the ali fight and generally underrated.
I'm not saying he would have beaten peak Tyson but damn he had one of the best Jabs out there which gave him the best weapon he needed to keep Tyson off him.

Styles make fights, look at the trouble frazier gave Ali, tyson had way more power and was far quicker.
Go figure

One thing Tyson seemed to lack was heart when the going got tough. I think Frazier ( if he survived the first 4-5 rounds) would end up bullying Tyson and stop him late on. I think Holmes ( circa 1980) would be too smart for Tyson. A prime Ali would make Tyson look stupid. Prime Lewis wears Mikey down and gives him a beating. Liston would destroy him. Foreman’s style (70s) is all wrong for Mikey. I actually think Vitali Klitschko would be too big for MT
I think Joe Louis/Bowe/Holyfield and even Tyson Fury have a more than good chance of beating prime Tyson.
As for styles make fights, Ken Norton gave Ali all sorts of problems yet was always susceptible to big punchers.


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[HalloweenJack]

Tyson had a good jab which he used to get inside but at 5'10 he is likely to be kept at range by a large reach disadvantage
The tucker fight is a good example and while he was a complete mess in it the Douglas fight a better one.

Didn’t Tucker break his hand early on in that fight and he had some success against Tyson early in that fight.


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[HalloweenJack]

Wonderful contribution, welcome to the debate.


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[Randall]

Tyson ran out of ideas down the stretch but at 5'10 he could only have one game plan. I don't think he lacked heart
He had to much for frazier for me
Liston and foreman literally anything could have happened
I'd have paid to see that

[Randall]

Don't know as tucker broke his hand
He nearly knocked tyson down in the last with a great uppercut

[sennafan24]

Tyson had a good jab which he used to get inside but at 5'10 he is likely to be kept at range by a large reach disadvantage The tucker fight is a good example and while he was a complete mess in it the Douglas fight a better one.

Didn’t Tucker break his hand early on in that fight and he had some success against Tyson early in that fight. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So Tyson claims.

Tucker and Holmes best success against Tyson came by tying him up. They didn't mount that much meaningful offence against him.

Although Tucker did indeed rock Tyson in the first round with an uppercut.

[Randall]

The last punch of the fight

[HalloweenJack]

Brook v Khan

Who wins??

If they had fought when they should have done, I think Brook wins all day. His timing and power versus Kahn speed and chin, sees Brook catching him at some point.

Fast forward to the present then it’s a pick em fight. Both are more or less finished but it will be intriguing. I am favouring Brook. I predict a stoppage mid to late rounds but Khan may well be ahead in points at the time.

[The Thorn]

Analysis based on prime performance seems pointless here, though fortunately both men are the same age and around roughly at the same point of downslope in their careers. You can try to compare their performances against Terence Crawford, if you have some measure of weighing looking good but getting stopped quicker against looking cautious but surviving slightly longer.

Instead, I’ll just go with a gut feel based on my impression that this fight hasn’t already happened only because Amir Khan didn’t want it. I think beating Khan is a top tier bucket list goal for Brook, and I don’t think he’ll let the opportunity escape him. The man is out of eye sockets to break, but Khan’s chin hasn’t gotten any less hittable.

[HalloweenJack]

Analysis based on prime performance seems pointless here, though fortunately both men are the same age and around roughly at the same point of downslope in their careers. You can try to compare their performances against Terence Crawford, if you have some measure of weighing looking good but getting stopped quicker against looking cautious but surviving slightly longer.

Instead, I’ll just go with a gut feel based on my impression that this fight hasn’t already happened only because Amir Khan didn’t want it. I think beating Khan is a top tier bucket list goal for Brook, and I don’t think he’ll let the opportunity escape him. The man is out of eye sockets to break, but Khan’s chin hasn’t gotten any less hittable.

I see you have been on badlefthook.com


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[sennafan24]

I've always felt Brook would eventually time Khan and knock him out. As quick as Khan is, he often leaves himself open in exchanges and has a questionable chin.

But I have concerns about Brook's punch resistance at this stage of his career. I therefore can't rule out Khan blitzing him early before Brook can find an opening.

So I am on the fence really. Tentatively, I will go with Brook by KO.

[HalloweenJack]

I've always felt Brook would eventually time Khan and knock him out. As quick as Khan is, he often leaves himself open in exchanges and has a questionable chin.

But I have concerns about Brook's punch resistance at this stage of his career. I therefore can't rule out Khan blitzing him early before Brook can find an opening.

So I am on the fence really. Tentatively, I will go with Brook by KO.

I think that’s pretty much spot on Senna. I await for Thorn to cut and paste somebody else’s comments again and put them on here as his own


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