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Jamie Harvey was apparently once asked to leave a pub on account of being one of the rebels.

sennafan24 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2025 9:23 am Jamie Harvey was apparently once asked to leave a pub on account of being one of the rebels.

Surprised Croft didn't order a hit at some point.

Rogg wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2025 9:40 am

sennafan24 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2025 9:23 am Jamie Harvey was apparently once asked to leave a pub on account of being one of the rebels.

Surprised Croft didn't order a hit at some point.

"The rebels should have been shot and deported" - Oche Balboa

sennafan24 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2025 9:50 am

Rogg wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2025 9:40 am

sennafan24 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2025 9:23 am Jamie Harvey was apparently once asked to leave a pub on account of being one of the rebels.

Surprised Croft didn't order a hit at some point.

"The rebels should have been shot and deported" - Oche Balboa

"BDO will die in 1996" - Senna

Had they gone back how different things would be now

Randall wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2025 11:00 am Had they gone back how different things would be now

I guess it would have been possible that a breakaway tour would have formed at a later date instead.

sennafan24 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2025 11:06 am

Randall wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2025 11:00 am Had they gone back how different things would be now

I guess it would have been possible that a breakaway tour would have formed at a later date instead.

How late are we talking though?

Randall wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2025 11:06 am

sennafan24 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2025 11:06 am

Randall wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2025 11:00 am Had they gone back how different things would be now

I guess it would have been possible that a breakaway tour would have formed at a later date instead.

How late are we talking though?

I'm not sure.

I'm guessing that eventually enough top players would have tired of Croft, etc's ways, and the possibility of a breakaway tour would have re-emerged.

Here's my "Fantasy" Guesswork

- The "Rebels" would have gone back to the BDO in 1994.

- Olly Croft would have banned them all from Lakeside until 1995. They would be able to play in other competitions. Lowe/Bristow etc will think about retiring. Sky be interested in some BDO Events but also want the Worlds which Olly refuses

- Lowe and Bristow don't retire. 1995 Lakeside is full of the rebels and Phil Taylor beats Richie Burnett 6-5 in a classic final. Green bellows "It's good they are all back"

- 1996 and Sky & BDO have a dispute over TV events which leads to a termination of a darts contract after Winmau World Masters in 1996

- Hearn is in talks with a number of leading BDO Players about a new organisation which will be called the PDC

- Once again Olly Croft refuses a request from the players to stage their own events stats that the two best events are on TV.

- Hearn turns on the Pressure and announces that the PDC will be launched on Sky in 1996

- 1996 Lakeside is into a farce, Players close to withdrawing, Players moaning and its won by Steve Beaton who announces he is ready to join the PDC which lead to Olly Croft storming out of the Lakeside dinner.

- All rebels (13 original players, Burnett, Mason, Beaton) all sign a contract with the Hearn's PDC. Sky launch an event called the "Sky Masters" which is won by Phil Taylor over Steve Beaton. It's a success and sold out.

- Olly Croft is under pressure from the BBC & some of his own board has this has happened again under his watch, He survives after public backing from Martin Adams, Mike Gregory & Raymond Van Barneveld. BBC agree to show Lakeside and have a highlights package for the World Masters.

- 1997 and PDC hold their World Championship which Taylor wins. Sid Waddell blasts the BDO on air as too Taylor in his winning speech. They also announce the World Matchplay and the World Grand Prix with the PDC Masters.

- 1997 Lakeside happens, but with many players missing. Which raises questions. Les Wallace wins the event and signs a contract on air playing in the 1998 version & says this is the real World Championship.

oche balboa wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2025 12:09 pm - All rebels (13 original players, Burnett, Mason, Beaton) all sign a contract with the Hearn's PDC. Sky launch an event called the "Sky Masters" which is won by Phil Taylor over Steve Beaton. It's a success and sold out.

Burnett would have definitely been a part of a breakaway tour had it launched at a later date.

Richie loathed the BDO management.

sennafan24 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2025 11:06 am

Randall wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2025 11:00 am Had they gone back how different things would be now

I guess it would have been possible that a breakaway tour would have formed at a later date instead.

I seem to remember in snooker, in 2001, there was a proposed breakaway tour with The Sports Network (TSN). It then fizzled out.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_s ... 173618.stm
https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Snooker% ... a072763996

PT13 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2025 6:46 pm

sennafan24 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2025 11:06 am

Randall wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2025 11:00 am Had they gone back how different things would be now

I guess it would have been possible that a breakaway tour would have formed at a later date instead.

I seem to remember in snooker, in 2001, there was a proposed breakaway tour with The Sports Network (TSN). It then fizzled out.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_s ... 173618.stm
https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Snooker% ... a072763996

A Chinese backed breakaway tour was strongly rumoured to be ready to launch earlier this year. Murphy and Trump even acknowledged its existence at the Worlds.

The rumour is that it fizzled out due to O'Sullivan withdrawing from participating in it.

Regarding Oche's alternate timeline, it's worth pointing out that Barry Hearn and his Matchroom Sport company had a financial disaster in late 1991, i.e. the StormSeal controversy. Basically, Hearn for the previous decade had been extremely influential in snooker, having initially just been Steve Davis' manager. StormSeal was a company that sponsored the UK Championship in 1989 and 1990, and were due to do so again in 1991. However, just before the 1991 UK Championship, StormSeal went into administration. That left Hearn, as promoter, to cover the prize money costs, and it saw a big reduction in prize money. The 1991 UK Championship winner, John Parrott, only won £35,000, compared to Stephen Hendry winning £110,000 for the 1990 UK Championship and £100,000 for the 1989 UK Championship.

So bad was the financial situation for Hearn and Matchroom that he had to withdraw from snooker entirely by about June 1992. He was close to bankruptcy. They basically had to just focus on boxing for a time, i.e. Hearn was Chris Eubank's manager. Hearn was around PDC darts as early as the 1995 World Championship, talking about the money potential, but he didn't really get seriously involved with the PDC until much later, around 1999 (he organized the Taylor vs. Barneveld match at Wembley in November 1999), and became PDC Chairman in July 2001.

sennafan24 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2025 1:25 pm

oche balboa wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2025 12:09 pm - All rebels (13 original players, Burnett, Mason, Beaton) all sign a contract with the Hearn's PDC. Sky launch an event called the "Sky Masters" which is won by Phil Taylor over Steve Beaton. It's a success and sold out.

Burnett would have definitely been a part of a breakaway tour had it launched at a later date.

Richie loathed the BDO management.

That is absolutely true. There was an ugly breakup between Richie Burnett and the BDO management in 1999. Burnett didn't even play in the 2000 World Championship, on either side. Tensions between Burnett and the BDO management had been building for some time. When Burnett was later struggling for form in the PDC, around 2005-2006 when he was falling down the rankings, he had a look of total disgust on his face when it was suggested that he possibly go back to the BDO. I think he said something to the effect of rather quitting darts than do that.

Richie still played at the World Masters up until 2001, though. He was a semi finalist there in 2001, losing to Barneveld. I remember that being the first year of the tournament on the BBC.

PT13 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2025 6:55 pm Regarding Oche's alternate timeline, it's worth pointing out that Barry Hearn and his Matchroom Sport company had a financial disaster in late 1991, i.e. the StormSeal controversy. Basically, Hearn for the previous decade had been extremely influential in snooker, having initially just been Steve Davis' manager. StormSeal was a company that sponsored the UK Championship in 1989 and 1990, and were due to do so again in 1991. However, just before the 1991 UK Championship, StormSeal went into administration. That left Hearn, as promoter, to cover the prize money costs, and it saw a big reduction in prize money. The 1991 UK Championship winner, John Parrott, only won £35,000, compared to Stephen Hendry winning £110,000 for the 1990 UK Championship and £100,000 for the 1989 UK Championship.

So bad was the financial situation for Hearn and Matchroom that he had to withdraw from snooker entirely by about June 1992. He was close to bankruptcy. They basically had to just focus on boxing for a time, i.e. Hearn was Chris Eubank's manager. Hearn was around PDC darts as early as the 1995 World Championship, talking about the money potential, but he didn't really get seriously involved with the PDC until much later, around 1999 (he organized the Taylor vs. Barneveld match at Wembley in November 1999), and became PDC Chairman in July 2001.

Hearn was involved with selling PDC rights abroad in the last 90s

PT13 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2025 7:04 pm

sennafan24 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2025 1:25 pm

oche balboa wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2025 12:09 pm - All rebels (13 original players, Burnett, Mason, Beaton) all sign a contract with the Hearn's PDC. Sky launch an event called the "Sky Masters" which is won by Phil Taylor over Steve Beaton. It's a success and sold out.

Burnett would have definitely been a part of a breakaway tour had it launched at a later date.

Richie loathed the BDO management.

That is absolutely true. There was an ugly breakup between Richie Burnett and the BDO management in 1999. Burnett didn't even play in the 2000 World Championship, on either side. Tensions between Burnett and the BDO management had been building for some time. When Burnett was later struggling for form in the PDC, around 2005-2006 when he was falling down the rankings, he had a look of total disgust on his face when it was suggested that he possibly go back to the BDO. I think he said something to the effect of rather quitting darts than do that.

Richie still played at the World Masters up until 2001, though. He was a semi finalist there in 2001, losing to Barneveld. I remember that being the first year of the tournament on the BBC.

I think since then he played one BDO Event (Welsh Open after his ban 2017?)

PT13 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2025 7:04 pm

sennafan24 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2025 1:25 pm

oche balboa wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2025 12:09 pm - All rebels (13 original players, Burnett, Mason, Beaton) all sign a contract with the Hearn's PDC. Sky launch an event called the "Sky Masters" which is won by Phil Taylor over Steve Beaton. It's a success and sold out.

Burnett would have definitely been a part of a breakaway tour had it launched at a later date.

Richie loathed the BDO management.

That is absolutely true. There was an ugly breakup between Richie Burnett and the BDO management in 1999. Burnett didn't even play in the 2000 World Championship, on either side. Tensions between Burnett and the BDO management had been building for some time. When Burnett was later struggling for form in the PDC, around 2005-2006 when he was falling down the rankings, he had a look of total disgust on his face when it was suggested that he possibly go back to the BDO. I think he said something to the effect of rather quitting darts than do that.

Richie still played at the World Masters up until 2001, though. He was a semi finalist there in 2001, losing to Barneveld. I remember that being the first year of the tournament on the BBC.

I'd like to see Burnett and Wayne Warren discussing the BDO.

Rogg wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2025 10:28 am I'd like to see Burnett and Wayne Warren discussing the BDO.

In a pub?