The Darts Forum

Captain Hobo wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 11:37 pm

HalloweenJack wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 11:09 pm

Captain Hobo wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 10:18 pm

HalloweenJack wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:01 pm Wade for his longevity. Some people won’t vote for him though due to not liking him rather than looking at his record.

World Titles

Lewis 2
Bob 1
Wade 0

Major titles

Wade 10
Bob 4
Lewis 4

Agree Lewis has won stuff all apart from his 2 Worlds, but they still rank as more important than everything Wade has won combined.

I voted for Bob here as the 4 Majors he won were in a Unified Field. Plus speaking of longevity, he made the Worlds Semis twice in his Late 50s.

All about opinions. Yes the worlds is the biggest by far and hold much more clout, but Wade has won the Matchplay, Grand Prix, UK open etc.
I’ve asked this question before but no one has yet answered it. How many more majors would Wade have to win excluding the world before he would be ranked higher by some. So for example if he had 15 major wins and there was a grand slam a couple more matchplays a Grand Prix and another one. The worlds can’t just be the be all and end all.

HalloweenJack wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 12:25 am

Captain Hobo wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 11:37 pm

HalloweenJack wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 11:09 pm

Captain Hobo wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 10:18 pm

HalloweenJack wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:01 pm Wade for his longevity. Some people won’t vote for him though due to not liking him rather than looking at his record.

World Titles

Lewis 2
Bob 1
Wade 0

Major titles

Wade 10
Bob 4
Lewis 4

Agree Lewis has won stuff all apart from his 2 Worlds, but they still rank as more important than everything Wade has won combined.

I voted for Bob here as the 4 Majors he won were in a Unified Field. Plus speaking of longevity, he made the Worlds Semis twice in his Late 50s.

All about opinions. Yes the worlds is the biggest by far and hold much more clout, but Wade has won the Matchplay, Grand Prix, UK open etc.
I’ve asked this question before but no one has yet answered it. How many more majors would Wade have to win excluding the world before he would be ranked higher by some. So for example if he had 15 major wins and there was a grand slam a couple more matchplays a Grand Prix and another one. The worlds can’t just be the be all and end all.

Can't really put a number on it. Depends on which tournaments, who he beats, standard of play etc.

Also you talk about longevity but Wade has been a bang average player for the last 8 years.

Everything he won that is worth anything was won from 2007-2011.

Captain Hobo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 12:38 am

HalloweenJack wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 12:25 am

Captain Hobo wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 11:37 pm

HalloweenJack wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 11:09 pm

Captain Hobo wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 10:18 pm

World Titles

Lewis 2
Bob 1
Wade 0

Major titles

Wade 10
Bob 4
Lewis 4

Agree Lewis has won stuff all apart from his 2 Worlds, but they still rank as more important than everything Wade has won combined.

I voted for Bob here as the 4 Majors he won were in a Unified Field. Plus speaking of longevity, he made the Worlds Semis twice in his Late 50s.

All about opinions. Yes the worlds is the biggest by far and hold much more clout, but Wade has won the Matchplay, Grand Prix, UK open etc.
I’ve asked this question before but no one has yet answered it. How many more majors would Wade have to win excluding the world before he would be ranked higher by some. So for example if he had 15 major wins and there was a grand slam a couple more matchplays a Grand Prix and another one. The worlds can’t just be the be all and end all.

Can't really put a number on it. Depends on which tournaments, who he beats, standard of play etc.

Also you talk about longevity but Wade has been a bang average player for the last 8 years.

Everything he won that is worth anything was won from 2007-2011.

I think the term bang average is harsh, whatever your own opinion on the status of his majors from 2012 on, he has still reached 8 major finals winning 3 of them and two of his 3 World title semi finals were in this time period. He has been in the top 10 for practically all this time. Whilst he hasn’t been spectacular for the best part from 2012 he has generally been consistent and I still believe he will win at least one more major title.
If you think Wade has been bang average in that time frame, there is only a handful of players you must think are decent??

He hasn't been ranked higher than 6th in the last 8 years. He is a solid player in that time but nothing more. Certainly nothing he has done in that time qualifies him to be ranked above Lewis or Bob Anderson in an all time list.

HalloweenJack wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 11:09 pm

Captain Hobo wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 10:18 pm

HalloweenJack wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:01 pm Wade for his longevity. Some people won’t vote for him though due to not liking him rather than looking at his record.

World Titles

Lewis 2
Bob 1
Wade 0

Major titles

Wade 10
Bob 4
Lewis 4

Given the events a available in Bob's era that's a smidge unfair.

Captain Hobo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 1:20 am He hasn't been ranked higher than 6th in the last 8 years. He is a solid player in that time but nothing more. Certainly nothing he has done in that time qualifies him to be ranked above Lewis or Bob Anderson in an all time list.

This isn’t based on James Wade from 2012 to the present though. It’s based on his whole career.

Randall wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 7:15 am

HalloweenJack wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 11:09 pm

Captain Hobo wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 10:18 pm

HalloweenJack wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:01 pm Wade for his longevity. Some people won’t vote for him though due to not liking him rather than looking at his record.

World Titles

Lewis 2
Bob 1
Wade 0

Major titles

Wade 10
Bob 4
Lewis 4

Given the events a available in Bob's era that's a smidge unfair.

Point taken, but Anderson was very very good for about 3-4 years, he then stopped winning the big events, even getting to the finals.

HalloweenJack wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 8:36 am

Captain Hobo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 1:20 am He hasn't been ranked higher than 6th in the last 8 years. He is a solid player in that time but nothing more. Certainly nothing he has done in that time qualifies him to be ranked above Lewis or Bob Anderson in an all time list.

This isn’t based on James Wade from 2012 to the present though. It’s based on his whole career.

You were the one who raised longevity as a criteria. All he's won from 2012 on are 3 minor TV events with pretty average performances. So his time at the very top of the PDC was only 4 years.

And I am considering his whole career when ranking him below Lewis and Bob Anderson.

HalloweenJack wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 12:25 am

Captain Hobo wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 11:37 pm

HalloweenJack wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 11:09 pm

Captain Hobo wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 10:18 pm

HalloweenJack wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:01 pm Wade for his longevity. Some people won’t vote for him though due to not liking him rather than looking at his record.

World Titles

Lewis 2
Bob 1
Wade 0

Major titles

Wade 10
Bob 4
Lewis 4

Agree Lewis has won stuff all apart from his 2 Worlds, but they still rank as more important than everything Wade has won combined.

I voted for Bob here as the 4 Majors he won were in a Unified Field. Plus speaking of longevity, he made the Worlds Semis twice in his Late 50s.

All about opinions. Yes the worlds is the biggest by far and hold much more clout, but Wade has won the Matchplay, Grand Prix, UK open etc.
I’ve asked this question before but no one has yet answered it. How many more majors would Wade have to win excluding the world before he would be ranked higher by some. So for example if he had 15 major wins and there was a grand slam a couple more matchplays a Grand Prix and another one. The worlds can’t just be the be all and end all.

It's an interesting point. I seem to go further than most in looking beyond World titles when judging players against each other but we just never forget how many World titles everybody has won. They are such heavy, convincing numbers. Lewis 2-0 Wade... I mean, what can you say?

Captain Hobo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 8:58 am

HalloweenJack wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 8:36 am

Captain Hobo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 1:20 am He hasn't been ranked higher than 6th in the last 8 years. He is a solid player in that time but nothing more. Certainly nothing he has done in that time qualifies him to be ranked above Lewis or Bob Anderson in an all time list.

This isn’t based on James Wade from 2012 to the present though. It’s based on his whole career.

You were the one who raised longevity as a criteria. All he's won from 2012 on are 3 minor TV events with pretty average performances. So his time at the very top of the PDC was only 4 years.

And I am considering his whole career when ranking him below Lewis and Bob Anderson.

Whenever tv pundits talk about Wade, they talk about longevity. Even in your so called bang average period, he still won 3 majors and runner up in 5 and 2 world champ semis. To be in the top 10 for 13/14 years is pretty good, how many other players can say this? I agree his best days were probably upto and including 2014 but he has stuck around and not faded away and still capable of winning big events even now.
As for the so called average performances? That isn’t written on the trophy.

Let's try some scenario to check on instincts then.

If all the following players (and Wade) win nothing between now and the upcoming 2021 Worlds, and they win the 2021 Worlds, which of them (if any) would people here put above Wade in their all-time list?

-Jose De Sousa
-Gerwyn Price
-Nathan Aspinall
-Daryl Gurney

I believe head to head has been used as a marker also
Wade v Lewis
Wade 30
Lewis 23
3 draws

Rogg wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 9:51 am Let's try some scenario to check on instincts then.

If all the following players (and Wade) win nothing between now and the upcoming 2021 Worlds, and they win the 2021 Worlds, which of them (if any) would people here put above Wade in their all-time list?

-Jose De Sousa
-Gerwyn Price
-Nathan Aspinall
-Daryl Gurney

None, because they havent won enough.
I think if Lewis only won 1 world title, nobody would consider him better on an all time ranking than Wade.
Anderson is only considered it by some as he won 3 masters titles in a row, which shows other events hold some clout.
I noticed you haven’t put Peter Wright up on the list. If he wins the worlds ( distinct possibility) he would be on 2 world titles and 5 majors ( providing he doesn’t win the 2 in between the worlds)
Why did you add De Sousa?

HalloweenJack wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 9:56 am

Rogg wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 9:51 am Let's try some scenario to check on instincts then.

If all the following players (and Wade) win nothing between now and the upcoming 2021 Worlds, and they win the 2021 Worlds, which of them (if any) would people here put above Wade in their all-time list?

-Jose De Sousa
-Gerwyn Price
-Nathan Aspinall
-Daryl Gurney

None, because they havent won enough.
I think if Lewis only won 1 world title, nobody would consider him better on an all time ranking than Wade.
Anderson is only considered it by some as he won 3 masters titles in a row, which shows other events hold some clout.
I noticed you haven’t put Peter Wright up on the list. If he wins the worlds ( distinct possibility) he would be on 2 world titles and 5 majors ( providing he doesn’t win the 2 in between the worlds)
Why did you add De Sousa?

I just threw in a few players with varying levels of TV achievement. Add anyone to it... start a thread! Maybe there is someone who thinks that only World titles are worth something and so would put De Sousa straight in ahead of Wade. I certainly wouldn't, but it's all opinions.

A pair of spectacular Slams and a Grand Prix combined with a World title would take Price above Wade in my list. I think so anyway. It's very hard to juggle all the complications. Wade does have his own solid collection of week-long, full course titles to his name.

HalloweenJack wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 9:49 am

Captain Hobo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 8:58 am

HalloweenJack wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 8:36 am

Captain Hobo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 1:20 am He hasn't been ranked higher than 6th in the last 8 years. He is a solid player in that time but nothing more. Certainly nothing he has done in that time qualifies him to be ranked above Lewis or Bob Anderson in an all time list.

This isn’t based on James Wade from 2012 to the present though. It’s based on his whole career.

You were the one who raised longevity as a criteria. All he's won from 2012 on are 3 minor TV events with pretty average performances. So his time at the very top of the PDC was only 4 years.

And I am considering his whole career when ranking him below Lewis and Bob Anderson.

Whenever tv pundits talk about Wade, they talk about longevity. Even in your so called bang average period, he still won 3 majors and runner up in 5 and 2 world champ semis. To be in the top 10 for 13/14 years is pretty good, how many other players can say this? I agree his best days were probably upto and including 2014 but he has stuck around and not faded away and still capable of winning big events even now.
As for the so called average performances? That isn’t written on the trophy.

It isn't written on the trophy, but when assessing the performance it does matter. Winning a TV Tournament would be more impressive if you averaged 100 in the Final beating MvG than 91 in beating Whitlock.

HalloweenJack wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 9:56 am I noticed you haven’t put Peter Wright up on the list.

In winning a 2nd World Title, he would go way past Wade.

Captain Hobo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 10:32 am

HalloweenJack wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 9:56 am I noticed you haven’t put Peter Wright up on the list.

In winning a 2nd World Title, he would go way past Wade.

In your opinion. Some don’t think Lewis is above Wade so Wright wouldn’t be way above Wade. I can see the argument but other tournaments have to be taken into consideration in my view.
It’s fair to say me and don’t agree on this, that’s fine this is a darts forum after all where all opinions should be taken into consideration.
Who knows Wade might well win the worlds himself then he certainly goes up a few places

Wade's longevity is always stated as a weighing factor in favour of him but it could equally be seen as one to be held against him in the greatest of all time discussion.

In contrast to someone like Lewis who has had multiple totally off the radar years and entered multiple World Championships in no form at all, Wade's career has been much more consistent.

You could then argue that a player worthy of contention for top 10 of all time would have more to show in World championships than just 3 semi final defeats in 18 attempts. I certainly would.

Take a closer look at his runs and I say his record becomes even more underwhelming

(green he beat in round order, red he exited to)

2003 - Nobody , Dennis Harbour

2004 - Shaun Greatbatch , Darryl Fitton

2005 - Nobody , Mark Holden

2006 - Nobody , Wayne Jones

2007 - Warren French, Dave Ladley , Terry Jenkins

2008 - Steve McArthur, Steve Beaton, Mark Dudbridge , John Part

2009 - Brendan Dolan, Tony Eccles, Vincent van der Voort, Paul Nicholson , Raymond van Barneveld

2010 - Steve Brown, Michael van Gerwen, Andy Hamilton , Simon Whitlock

2011 - Antonio Alcinas , Mensur Suljovic

2012 - Petri Korte, Jelle Klaasen, Steve Farmer, John Part , Adrian Lewis

2013 - Peter Hudson, Steve Beaton, Vincent van der Voort, Wes Newton , Michael van Gerwen

2014 - Darren Webster, Andy Smith, Richie Burnett , Adrian Lewis

2015 - Jamie Lewis , Stephen Bunting

2016 - John Michael, Wes Newton, Jamie Caven , Gary Anderson

2017 - Ronny Huybrechts, Steve Beaton, Michael Smith , Peter Wright

2018 - Nobody , Keegan Brown

2019 - Seigo Asada, Keegan Brown , Ryan Joyce

2020 - Ritchie Edhouse , Steve Beaton




The list of players he has beat at World Championships is very underwhelming.

Bob edges into the top 10
Poll ended