The Darts Forum

vizIIsto wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 6:50 pm Yeah Thorn has a problem with those people.

+1

It's a poor gimmick.

sennafan24 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 6:54 pm

The Thorn wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 6:47 pm You can see that in the vast majority of tournaments. And even in the World Cup after the group stages. Yes of course it would be the best if the field could be diverse and the quality high but you can't achieve both of these at the same time. It's also playing the long game. If you look at the standard of darts in Germany now, it's clear the PDC's investment is paying off. The goal is to do that in North America, Asia, Oceania, etc. Or at least find the best talent who can play on the main tour.

The PDC's TV events would have more diversity and high quality if they held more TV events that were open to those outside the top 32. Which is another reason why the shootout concept and a pairs event featuring TC holders is a good idea.

The World Cup doesn't have that much relevance to the growth of German darts. The Euro Tour, Euro Q School, holding the European Championship in Germany, etc are more responsible.

The World Cup has been held for over a decade, yet a superstar from the likes of Finland, US, Spain, Japan, etc hasn't emerged.

Of course one tournament isn't going to be responsible for darts stars in every country. It's a start and a good opportunity for players to have stage practice. It's not enough of course to play once or twice a year on TV. But maybe the prize money could help them travel to more events or the exposure could help them secure new sponsors. The PDC can't afford to develop darts in every country like they did in Germany but I am grateful that at least these opportunities exist.

I like both of your tournament ideas. But it seems like the calendar is pretty saturated these days. I don't realistically see the PDC establishing multiple new events. I would take the shootout instead of the Masters. I would definitely not replace the World Cup with a pairs event restricted to top 64, which again would be pretty familiar faces with an odd exception here and there. These players still feature in Euro Tours and Pro Tours a lot

The Thorn wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 7:00 pm Of course one tournament isn't going to be responsible for darts stars in every country. It's a start and a good opportunity for players to have stage practice. It's not enough of course to play once or twice a year on TV. But maybe the prize money could help them travel to more events or the exposure could help them secure new sponsors. The PDC can't afford to develop darts in every country like they did in Germany but I am grateful that at least these opportunities exist.

I like both of your tournament ideas. But it seems like the calendar is pretty saturated these days. I don't realistically see the PDC establishing multiple new events. I would take the shootout instead of the Masters. I would definitely not replace the World Cup with a pairs event restricted to top 64, which again would be pretty familiar faces with an odd exception here and there. These players still feature in Euro Tours and Pro Tours a lot

Darts simply will not become popular in some nations and in turn result in a increase in people from those nations taking up the game. The PDC tried for years to crack the US market, but it didn't really work. As I established in my previous post, there is little evidence to suggest that the World Cup has grown the game significantly internationally.

The shootout could indeed replace the Masters. There is also a gap between July and October where there is little meaningful darts on TV. Perhaps a TV pairs event could slot in there if it's viable. There used to be that crappy BBC event in September.

Pro Tour and Euro Tour events are only available on stream and most are played on the floor. Therefore, there are a lot of TC holders who rarely feature in TV stage events. For example, has your hero Ross Montgomery appeared on TV at all since he fluked winning tour card?

There's high quality darts every week in the PDC. If you think it's oversaturated in terms of how many events there are a good way to manage that is don't watch it all.

I actually completely agree with Thorn in that it's good to have some events on the calendar like the World Cup to try and boost interest in certain regions. It has to start somewhere, and in the long run that investment will be financially beneficial for the PDC if darts became a more global game. You can already see by the improvement in standard in the women's series now compared to the first event that investing into it does work long term (There's still miles to go).

I'd actually make the World Cup every 2 years rather than 1 year so the event feels more valuable

José came from nowhere though

Also it's not just the World Cup that gets used to 'grow the game', they've started a Central/South America tour this year, and the standard is absolutely terrible, but if interest keeps going give it 5-10 years and I bet it'll be a lot better

TheMalteseDart wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 7:07 pm
I'd actually make the World Cup every 2 years rather than 1 year so the event feels more valuable

+1

TheMalteseDart wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 7:07 pm There's high quality darts every week in the PDC. If you think it's oversaturated in terms of how many events there are a good way to manage that is don't watch it all.

Which Bob stated he has done.

TheMalteseDart wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 7:09 pm Also it's not just the World Cup that gets used to 'grow the game', they've started a Central/South America tour this year, and the standard is absolutely terrible, but if interest keeps going give it 5-10 years and I bet it'll be a lot better

Which I don't oppose and actually think are good ideas.

Perhaps that investment will pay off. Perhaps not.

TheMalteseDart wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 7:07 pm
I'd actually make the World Cup every 2 years rather than 1 year so the event feels more valuable

Should anything fill in the gap in the other year?
I was going to suggest another type of pairs tournament but that may make both events less interesting.

sennafan24 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 7:09 pm

TheMalteseDart wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 7:07 pm There's high quality darts every week in the PDC. If you think it's oversaturated in terms of how many events there are a good way to manage that is don't watch it all.

Which Bob stated he has done.

Have we just been talking in regards to Bobs viewing experience in the last 2 pages? Apologies

vizIIsto wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 7:11 pm

TheMalteseDart wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 7:07 pm
I'd actually make the World Cup every 2 years rather than 1 year so the event feels more valuable

Should anything fill in the gap in the other year?
I was going to suggest another type of pairs tournament but that may make both events less interesting.

I'd say No, just have one less event in the odd years.. or you could even use that year to have qualifying events for the shit countries

TheMalteseDart wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 7:12 pm

vizIIsto wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 7:11 pm

TheMalteseDart wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 7:07 pm
I'd actually make the World Cup every 2 years rather than 1 year so the event feels more valuable

Should anything fill in the gap in the other year?
I was going to suggest another type of pairs tournament but that may make both events less interesting.

I'd say No, just have one less event in the odd years.. or you could even use that year to have qualifying events for the shit countries

I want all nations being forced to play in qualifiers and then ask Thorn if he's going to watch Haiti vs St. Vincent & the Grenadines.

TheMalteseDart wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 7:11 pm

sennafan24 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 7:09 pm

TheMalteseDart wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 7:07 pm There's high quality darts every week in the PDC. If you think it's oversaturated in terms of how many events there are a good way to manage that is don't watch it all.

Which Bob stated he has done.

Have we just been talking in regards to Bobs viewing experience in the last 2 pages? Apologies

Ross, Bob wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 6:19 pm When I started watching darts (yes, it happened) there where just a few tournaments every year. Now they just spam the calendar year round with shitty jobber tournaments.

I just try to follow the majors and skip the rest. Don't have the time or the patience anymore.

sennafan24 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 7:14 pm

TheMalteseDart wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 7:11 pm

sennafan24 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 7:09 pm

TheMalteseDart wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 7:07 pm There's high quality darts every week in the PDC. If you think it's oversaturated in terms of how many events there are a good way to manage that is don't watch it all.

Which Bob stated he has done.

Have we just been talking in regards to Bobs viewing experience in the last 2 pages? Apologies

Ross, Bob wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 6:19 pm When I started watching darts (yes, it happened) there where just a few tournaments every year. Now they just spam the calendar year round with shitty jobber tournaments.

I just try to follow the majors and skip the rest. Don't have the time or the patience anymore.

I saw him say that, I wasn't talking about anyone specifically in my first sentence

TheMalteseDart wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 7:18 pm

sennafan24 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 7:14 pm

TheMalteseDart wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 7:11 pm

sennafan24 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 7:09 pm

TheMalteseDart wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 7:07 pm There's high quality darts every week in the PDC. If you think it's oversaturated in terms of how many events there are a good way to manage that is don't watch it all.

Which Bob stated he has done.

Have we just been talking in regards to Bobs viewing experience in the last 2 pages? Apologies

Ross, Bob wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 6:19 pm When I started watching darts (yes, it happened) there where just a few tournaments every year. Now they just spam the calendar year round with shitty jobber tournaments.

I just try to follow the majors and skip the rest. Don't have the time or the patience anymore.

I saw him say that, I wasn't talking about anyone specifically in my first sentence

Yeah but Bob reigns.

Bob's opinion is irrelevant he's a snooker fan, knows fuck all about darts

The Thorn wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 7:20 pm Bob's opinion is irrelevant he's a snooker fan, knows fuck all about darts

You don't have most of us on ignore yet like dave but you sure talk like you want to follow his footsteps.

The Thorn wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 7:20 pm Bob's opinion is irrelevant he's a snooker fan, knows fuck all about darts

Not true

I don't really like snooker anymore.

I enjoyed the European Championship. I will probably enjoy the Players' Championship too.

A nice mix of high quality darts and players that don't appear on TV that often.