The evolution of dartboards (sponsored by Randall and Rogg)

[oche balboa]

I hate Taylor, always have and will, but I can say with as much confidence as I can for a man with no scientific basis for saying so that the prime version of him would be smashing in 110+ averages in for fun on these boards. And then some.

His averages back when boards had fucking staples in them were regularly higher than a bloke who today played (and lost) a WC semi-final. The numbers he posted when he went berserk circa 2009 were ridiculous.

Taylor's talent is almost as difficult to deny as his personality is to like.

I agree 2008-2010 Taylor had the highest peak of any darts player.

To be honest i used to think that 2008-10 Taylor was clearly better than say the 98-02 version, however, on looking back at things i am not so sure,

If you look at Taylor's performance in 98 PDC world final against Dennis Priestly, he averaged almost 104 on a board whose doubles/trebles appeared tiny in comparison to those he would be playing on 1 decade or so later. I honestly think if he had replicated his form from that match in say 2009 final he may have got close or even surpassed the record he set that day for PDC final.

Even if you look at his performances against Part in 2001 final and then against Burgess in 2002 S/F i honestly think on the current boards they would be potentially 115 plus averages, especially his one against Burgess.

So it may be that Taylor in 08-13 mode was better than say 99-02 but i don't think it is by as much as some think, has to me one of the main reasons for big noticeable increase in his match averages were the change in dart boards.

I think players like Bristow, peak Priestly and prime Taylor would be hammering the 105 plus and in Taylor's case the 110 plus averages with ease on current boards.

Taylor in 08-12 was the ultimate don't forget Barney came over, prior to this Taylor was losing focus as he knew he was miles better then the rest and Barney was a new challenger the 2009 final was the day he knew he got him pocketed. then came Anderson and MVG etc etc.

Taylor, sadly is the greatest of all time and him at his pomp would still win most things in this PDC

[paolo2144]

I hate Taylor, always have and will, but I can say with as much confidence as I can for a man with no scientific basis for saying so that the prime version of him would be smashing in 110+ averages in for fun on these boards. And then some.

His averages back when boards had fucking staples in them were regularly higher than a bloke who today played (and lost) a WC semi-final. The numbers he posted when he went berserk circa 2009 were ridiculous.

Taylor's talent is almost as difficult to deny as his personality is to like.

I agree 2008-2010 Taylor had the highest peak of any darts player.

To be honest i used to think that 2008-10 Taylor was clearly better than say the 98-02 version, however, on looking back at things i am not so sure,

If you look at Taylor's performance in 98 PDC world final against Dennis Priestly, he averaged almost 104 on a board whose doubles/trebles appeared tiny in comparison to those he would be playing on 1 decade or so later. I honestly think if he had replicated his form from that match in say 2009 final he may have got close or even surpassed the record he set that day for PDC final.

Even if you look at his performances against Part in 2001 final and then against Burgess in 2002 S/F i honestly think on the current boards they would be potentially 115 plus averages, especially his one against Burgess.

So it may be that Taylor in 08-13 mode was better than say 99-02 but i don't think it is by as much as some think, has to me one of the main reasons for big noticeable increase in his match averages were the change in dart boards.

I think players like Bristow, peak Priestly and prime Taylor would be hammering the 105 plus and in Taylor's case the 110 plus averages with ease on current boards.

Taylor in 08-12 was the ultimate don't forget Barney came over, prior to this Taylor was losing focus as he knew he was miles better then the rest and Barney was a new challenger the 2009 final was the day he knew he got him pocketed. then came Anderson and MVG etc etc.

Taylor, sadly is the greatest of all time and him at his pomp would still win most things in this PDC

Oh i agree that Taylor between 08-12 was probably slightly better than even 99-03 version, just not by as much as i initially had thought as i think change in scoring segments made his improvement look even better,

Peak Taylor to me is still the greatest ever and even though i was a huge fan of his, he could really be a pain in a*** at times.

Going back to dartboards everyone know3s that Taylor was clearly playing well below his peak in 15 and 16 and yet he recorded a few of his highest averages ever at PL and UK open during this period. Likewise with RvB, i mean no one can convince me that Barney in 2017 was overall anywhere as near as good as he was between 2003 and 2010 and yet he scored an average of 109 plus in 2017 S/F against MvG.

[Rob Singleton]

Good thread. Read the opening page and will return with eyes like stalks to read the rest

[Rob Singleton]

It's not as simple as board technology changing as with any sport. Dart technology has improved. Players are improving. Diet, preparation, sleep, management, psychology.
All of it adds a point or two. Not one factor but many.
The boards thing has always been an obsession on forums because it was a BDO v PDC thing. Now both WDF and PDC use Winmau it still continues what does that tell you?

Howay. There is a bairn just run through half a world championship field who boasts lovingly of living off kebabs and 'buying loads of vapes' with his winnings.

Diet, preparation and psychology my hole

At 16 the long terms effects won't have had time to kick in.
I'm sure you remember once feeling invincible at that age.

Many players still compete sozzled.

MVG smokes, Smith is obese, etc.

It's still very much a pub game.

+1

A pub game, yes. Except the kids of now are playing in safe spaces away from the glare of the pub and its distractions. The amazing darts academies, the county youth system etc. During JDC events, the ones I've been to in Coventey, the majority of matches are played upstairs with players only allowed. Parents etc must stay downstairs and follow matches on darts connect and let the kids get on with it. Last thing they need is a lairy uncle screaming.

The academies not only in UK, but around the world are growing at a rapid pace. From the 1970's my darts pathway was back garden fence, at first school (after lessons,) bedroom, youth club, local club, pub. There was nothing for younger players back then be it coaching or youth events like today. I played leagues mid teens (wasn't allowed to play in my local club xmas ko for being too good? Then tried saying because I wasn't 18, even though I played in their league team). Look what Littler's achieved age 16 I started drinking from age 18 onwards, but not as a need to play darts.

The dartboards and darts equipment of today is mind boggling. Always remember Dr Rod saying how cheap the game is to play. All you need is a set of darts. Some kits will set you back £100 yet some of these players don't even use those darts, name one? Michael van Gerwen. Could add Snakebite and name several more. These players endorse their darts and receive a fat cheque - For our American friends that's Check.

Dartboards in the 1980's were savage for bounceouts. In the end I removed the wires from my boards at home. Staples galore around the 25. In fact, staples all over the board. As posted in another thread, while thin wires have increased the scoring area, the negative as a player or marker! is not knowing where the dart landed. Is it in the single or treble? This was never an issue with the thicker wires. The majority of pros and darts players in general agree the Winmau boards have long been the superior brand of choice. Through the years I retired several times from playing darts, my longest being 5 years. I got trumped by Mark McGeeney, who'd stopped playing for 10 years!! He returned and even had darts at doubles to become a true World Champion.

It's a good discussion and topic for debate but I honestly didn't see the big change in the modern boards like some have posted on here. What iv'e seen is a surge in players throwing habits as a lot now understack (some are better than brilliant) and that's the Phil Taylor effect. Fascinating thread and I'm only on page 3/4?

P.S. An aside, I can get dartboards as "used" following the end of each day of Q School for £20. Retail £80+ in shops (and more for delivery.) Anyone on here want for personal use or for your pub / club then shout up. No, this is not an ASN enterprise opportunity scheme

[Rob Singleton]

MvG in a newspaper article the other day said that he knocked Taylor to the floor during the 2017 Grand Slam, after Phil was shadow boxing him and talking about Ricky Hatton. This was the tournament when Phil Taylor was at his most bitter, by far, and mostly took it out on Daryl Gurney. Eric Bristow publicly commented on twitter at the time that it was a shame that Phil Taylor couldn't lose with more humility after MvG beat him in the semis. I remember thinking "Eric, you taught Phil how he must be a ruthless winner. You never told him how to stop".

You got a copy of that article you share at all?

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/other-sp ... c-31778105

Thornton chasing Goblin with a chair is even funnier as fellow dutchies cry for Thorn to eventually stop

[Jimmi]

Was taken from this podcast

[Randall]

Mvg couldn't knock the skin off a rice pudding ffs

[daveboygreen]

Howay. There is a bairn just run through half a world championship field who boasts lovingly of living off kebabs and 'buying loads of vapes' with his winnings.

Diet, preparation and psychology my hole

At 16 the long terms effects won't have had time to kick in.
I'm sure you remember once feeling invincible at that age.

Many players still compete sozzled.

MVG smokes, Smith is obese, etc.

It's still very much a pub game.

+1

A pub game, yes. Except the kids of now are playing in safe spaces away from the glare of the pub and its distractions. The amazing darts academies, the county youth system etc. During JDC events, the ones I've been to in Coventey, the majority of matches are played upstairs with players only allowed. Parents etc must stay downstairs and follow matches on darts connect and let the kids get on with it. Last thing they need is a lairy uncle screaming.

The academies not only in UK, but around the world are growing at a rapid pace. From the 1970's my darts pathway was back garden fence, at first school (after lessons,) bedroom, youth club, local club, pub. There was nothing for younger players back then be it coaching or youth events like today. I played leagues mid teens (wasn't allowed to play in my local club xmas ko for being too good? Then tried saying because I wasn't 18, even though I played in their league team). Look what Littler's achieved age 16 I started drinking from age 18 onwards, but not as a need to play darts.

The dartboards and darts equipment of today is mind boggling. Always remember Dr Rod saying how cheap the game is to play. All you need is a set of darts. Some kits will set you back £100 yet some of these players don't even use those darts, name one? Michael van Gerwen. Could add Snakebite and name several more. These players endorse their darts and receive a fat cheque - For our American friends that's Check.

Dartboards in the 1980's were savage for bounceouts. In the end I removed the wires from my boards at home. Staples galore around the 25. In fact, staples all over the board. As posted in another thread, while thin wires have increased the scoring area, the negative as a player or marker! is not knowing where the dart landed. Is it in the single or treble? This was never an issue with the thicker wires. The majority of pros and darts players in general agree the Winmau boards have long been the superior brand of choice. Through the years I retired several times from playing darts, my longest being 5 years. I got trumped by Mark McGeeney, who'd stopped playing for 10 years!! He returned and even had darts at doubles to become a true World Champion.

It's a good discussion and topic for debate but I honestly didn't see the big change in the modern boards like some have posted on here. What iv'e seen is a surge in players throwing habits as a lot now understack (some are better than brilliant) and that's the Phil Taylor effect. Fascinating thread and I'm only on page 3/4?

P.S. An aside, I can get dartboards as "used" following the end of each day of Q School for £20. Retail £80+ in shops (and more for delivery.) Anyone on here want for personal use or for your pub / club then shout up. No, this is not an ASN enterprise opportunity scheme

Kids today can't really moan at the cost of dartboards and equipment, Think about how much games consoles, subscriptions and games for them cost....Parents of kids that want to play darts really need to make their kids make a choice....Either their Xbox/Playstation or the money instead used for darts.

As a kid I had to make that choice and eventually with having 3 younger siblings had to earn my own money to play darts, I never had all the latest gaming stuff and instead had dartboards, darts and accessories and my snooker cue, If I wanted to go to youth comps then I had to get off my arse and earn the money to pay for it, I used to work 3 hours every morning before school for the local milkman then after school and weekends myself and a mate of mine used to wash cars, Do some gardening and window cleaning to make money, Kids today expect everything handed to them on a plate, Perhaps if they were made to work for it or made to miss out on things like the latest games system or £150 pair of trainers then they would appreciate it more and put more effort into it.

[shenmue]

Excellent post mate.

[daveboygreen]

Excellent post mate.

This is what you and others on here really do not get about me, I am open and honest enough to post things like this and have had a hell of a lot of life experiences and played darts for years in the UK and in Europe.

Nothing for me was ever given to me on a plate, I had to work my arse off for everything I wanted or wanted to do when I was a teenager because my Dad was the only one bringing in a wage and paying a mortgage as well as bringing up 4 kids, I was born and lived on 2 council estates and it was not until I was 8 years old that my mum and dad had a home of their own, To see where they are now you would never think that with the home they own now and my dad being able to retire in his early 50's.

Remember Index? The retailer that tried to rival Argos? I was lucky enough to one day knock on the door of the manageress of the Carlisle branch one day when I was touting for customers for car washing/gardening etc, She took such a liking to me that anything I ever wanted from the store she would get for me and I done jobs for her until it was paid for, It was the only reason I was ever able to have a decent games system back then and I was always appreciative to her for that but as soon as I had paid my debt for it I swapped it for a rather nice snooker cue (I played a lot more snooker in my youth than darts) And gaming was never my thing.

The biggest hate for me darts wise was going to youth comps and getting into the prizes for it to be a fucking tv/video combo shit thing or vouchers for something which I never thought was fair given I still had to find the cash to pay the same for a caravan or travel etc as anyone else playing in the mens/womens events, It was what it was though and I just wanted to compete, I firmly believe in what I said about youngsters today in that they should get off their arses and earn at least entry fee's for events instead of holding their hands out expecting it to be handed to them, I have also been very vocal about players asking for handouts to enter Q-School or asking for sponsorship and have never agreed with any part of the whole begging bowl concept within darts, Its simple...You want to play and if you really believe in yourself then find a fucking way to fund it yourself.

I see the same people with the begging bowl out year after year and not one of them even get close to winning a tour card or winning anything for that matter.....When it comes to a lakeside semi finalist at it then I just think to myself....Fucking waste of time.

[daveboygreen]

Howay. There is a bairn just run through half a world championship field who boasts lovingly of living off kebabs and 'buying loads of vapes' with his winnings.

Diet, preparation and psychology my hole

At 16 the long terms effects won't have had time to kick in.
I'm sure you remember once feeling invincible at that age.

Many players still compete sozzled.

MVG smokes, Smith is obese, etc.

It's still very much a pub game.

+1

A pub game, yes. Except the kids of now are playing in safe spaces away from the glare of the pub and its distractions. The amazing darts academies, the county youth system etc. During JDC events, the ones I've been to in Coventey, the majority of matches are played upstairs with players only allowed. Parents etc must stay downstairs and follow matches on darts connect and let the kids get on with it. Last thing they need is a lairy uncle screaming.

The academies not only in UK, but around the world are growing at a rapid pace. From the 1970's my darts pathway was back garden fence, at first school (after lessons,) bedroom, youth club, local club, pub. There was nothing for younger players back then be it coaching or youth events like today. I played leagues mid teens (wasn't allowed to play in my local club xmas ko for being too good? Then tried saying because I wasn't 18, even though I played in their league team). Look what Littler's achieved age 16 I started drinking from age 18 onwards, but not as a need to play darts.

The dartboards and darts equipment of today is mind boggling. Always remember Dr Rod saying how cheap the game is to play. All you need is a set of darts. Some kits will set you back £100 yet some of these players don't even use those darts, name one? Michael van Gerwen. Could add Snakebite and name several more. These players endorse their darts and receive a fat cheque - For our American friends that's Check.

Dartboards in the 1980's were savage for bounceouts. In the end I removed the wires from my boards at home. Staples galore around the 25. In fact, staples all over the board. As posted in another thread, while thin wires have increased the scoring area, the negative as a player or marker! is not knowing where the dart landed. Is it in the single or treble? This was never an issue with the thicker wires. The majority of pros and darts players in general agree the Winmau boards have long been the superior brand of choice. Through the years I retired several times from playing darts, my longest being 5 years. I got trumped by Mark McGeeney, who'd stopped playing for 10 years!! He returned and even had darts at doubles to become a true World Champion.

It's a good discussion and topic for debate but I honestly didn't see the big change in the modern boards like some have posted on here. What iv'e seen is a surge in players throwing habits as a lot now understack (some are better than brilliant) and that's the Phil Taylor effect. Fascinating thread and I'm only on page 3/4?

P.S. An aside, I can get dartboards as "used" following the end of each day of Q School for £20. Retail £80+ in shops (and more for delivery.) Anyone on here want for personal use or for your pub / club then shout up. No, this is not an ASN enterprise opportunity scheme

They used to be a fiver at the end of a UK open or Players championship weekend....Cost of living I suppose

[Rob Singleton]

Excellent post mate.

This is what you and others on here really do not get about me, I am open and honest enough to post things like this and have had a hell of a lot of life experiences and played darts for years in the UK and in Europe.

Nothing for me was ever given to me on a plate, I had to work my arse off for everything I wanted or wanted to do when I was a teenager because my Dad was the only one bringing in a wage and paying a mortgage as well as bringing up 4 kids, I was born and lived on 2 council estates and it was not until I was 8 years old that my mum and dad had a home of their own, To see where they are now you would never think that with the home they own now and my dad being able to retire in his early 50's.

Remember Index? The retailer that tried to rival Argos? I was lucky enough to one day knock on the door of the manageress of the Carlisle branch one day when I was touting for customers for car washing/gardening etc, She took such a liking to me that anything I ever wanted from the store she would get for me and I done jobs for her until it was paid for, It was the only reason I was ever able to have a decent games system back then and I was always appreciative to her for that but as soon as I had paid my debt for it I swapped it for a rather nice snooker cue (I played a lot more snooker in my youth than darts) And gaming was never my thing.

The biggest hate for me darts wise was going to youth comps and getting into the prizes for it to be a fucking tv/video combo shit thing or vouchers for something which I never thought was fair given I still had to find the cash to pay the same for a caravan or travel etc as anyone else playing in the mens/womens events, It was what it was though and I just wanted to compete, I firmly believe in what I said about youngsters today in that they should get off their arses and earn at least entry fee's for events instead of holding their hands out expecting it to be handed to them, I have also been very vocal about players asking for handouts to enter Q-School or asking for sponsorship and have never agreed with any part of the whole begging bowl concept within darts, Its simple...You want to play and if you really believe in yourself then find a fucking way to fund it yourself.

I see the same people with the begging bowl out year after year and not one of them even get close to winning a tour card or winning anything for that matter.....When it comes to a lakeside semi finalist at it then I just think to myself....Fucking waste of time.

The first paragraph was sufficient. Your previous post 10/10

[meetthefeebles]

MVG discusses it in this video:

I've finally gotten round to watching this. Hilarious nonsense. I cannot stand Taylor and yet we've got MvG claiming that ' I've ever been in the pocket...Taylor never dominated me'.

The mook hosting the podcast, who admits he's watched darts 'for three or four years' is laughing his head off agreeing. Must have never seen this:

Like I say, I despise Taylor. But let's not rewrite history, eh?

[Rogg]

Posting a video of one match is hardly perfecting the historical record.

2 years later, the same final, MVG won.

[Randall]

Posting a video of one match is hardly perfecting the historical record.

2 years later, the same final, MVG won.

Was the game in 2017 where he really smashed mvg up wasn't it?
Could you do the honours in the q school comp please?
Names mean nothing to me

[Rogg]

Posting a video of one match is hardly perfecting the historical record.

2 years later, the same final, MVG won.

Was the game in 2017 where he really smashed mvg up wasn't it?
Could you do the honours in the q school comp please?
Names mean nothing to me

Will do. I'll make an optimism list and a pessimism list. Which one would you like?

[Randall]

Posting a video of one match is hardly perfecting the historical record.

2 years later, the same final, MVG won.

Was the game in 2017 where he really smashed mvg up wasn't it?
Could you do the honours in the q school comp please?
Names mean nothing to me

Will do. I'll make an optimism list and a pessimism list. Which one would you like?

Let's be optimistic
At least for a day!

[Rogg]

Posting a video of one match is hardly perfecting the historical record.

2 years later, the same final, MVG won.

Was the game in 2017 where he really smashed mvg up wasn't it?
Could you do the honours in the q school comp please?
Names mean nothing to me

Will do. I'll make an optimism list and a pessimism list. Which one would you like?

Let's be optimistic
At least for a day!

Excellent. Prepare to receive blonde women and Belgians.

[Randall]

Posting a video of one match is hardly perfecting the historical record.

2 years later, the same final, MVG won.

Was the game in 2017 where he really smashed mvg up wasn't it?
Could you do the honours in the q school comp please?
Names mean nothing to me

Will do. I'll make an optimism list and a pessimism list. Which one would you like?

Let's be optimistic
At least for a day!

Excellent. Prepare to receive blonde women and Belgians.

Any ladies received happily

[tungsten tossers]

Was the game in 2017 where he really smashed mvg up wasn't it?
Could you do the honours in the q school comp please?
Names mean nothing to me

Will do. I'll make an optimism list and a pessimism list. Which one would you like?

Let's be optimistic
At least for a day!

Excellent. Prepare to receive blonde women and Belgians.

Any ladies received happily

A bit late for that for you