The Darts Forum - Darts Chat

{darts forum}

{Darts chat}

It is currently Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:59 pm



Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 
 A quick question about women's darts 
Author Message

Joined: Wed May 02, 2018 7:59 am
Posts: 1
If a woman is good enough, she should be able to compete with men.

It's not like that men have some kind of physical advantage that allows men to be better at darts than women, like in athletics, football or swimming.

Is that the reason that the PDC doesn't have a seperate women's circuit?

_________________
Image


Thu May 03, 2018 9:26 am
Profile Send private message
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 05, 2011 3:09 pm
Posts: 25161
Why is the image in your signature not working?
What are you planning to spam us with?

_________________
Big changes on the way ! We've heard it before but it's different this time !!!! , I believe Bdo gonna grow x

Tony O'Shea, 6th January 2016


Thu May 03, 2018 9:28 am
Profile Send private message
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 12:41 am
Posts: 4754
Location: Tipping cows in fields Elysian
Ginge you cynic don't be such a negative Nelly.


More than likely clownin forgot his psswd...again

_________________
We Do Not Desire Tributes.
We Desire Information.
We Seek The Worm Drink Who Has Lately Betrayed His Nation


Thu May 03, 2018 11:43 am
Profile Send private message
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2016 5:36 pm
Posts: 7023
cannibal wrote:
Ginge you cynic don't be such a negative Nelly.


More than likely clownin forgot his psswd...again


I agree that's a possibility
Even tho maybe the thick cunt just wrote 'image' in his signature
To trick everyone etc


Thu May 03, 2018 12:51 pm
Profile Send private message
Online
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 05, 2011 2:59 pm
Posts: 69617
Location: On a hill surrounded by Indians (Leicester)
That plus the fact nobody wants to watch the womens game.


Thu May 03, 2018 1:13 pm
Profile Send private message
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:45 pm
Posts: 259
Randall wrote:
That plus the fact nobody wants to watch the womens game.


Topless?

_________________
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RP2u4wJcnS0


Thu May 03, 2018 1:49 pm
Profile Send private message
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 2:08 pm
Posts: 8058
Location: Quietly invading South Korea
Gidra wrote:
Randall wrote:
That plus the fact nobody wants to watch the womens game.


Topless?


You are welcome to watch Deta Hedman vs Trina Gulliver topless.


Thu May 03, 2018 1:51 pm
Profile Send private message
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 12:41 am
Posts: 4754
Location: Tipping cows in fields Elysian
Gidra wrote:
Randall wrote:
That plus the fact nobody wants to watch the womens game.


Topless?


Been done, nuts tv it was a fail. The market for that perv fetish is to small. Lol

_________________
We Do Not Desire Tributes.
We Desire Information.
We Seek The Worm Drink Who Has Lately Betrayed His Nation


Thu May 03, 2018 2:11 pm
Profile Send private message
Online
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 05, 2011 2:59 pm
Posts: 69617
Location: On a hill surrounded by Indians (Leicester)
Gidra wrote:
Randall wrote:
That plus the fact nobody wants to watch the womens game.


Topless?


Absolutely not.


Thu May 03, 2018 2:19 pm
Profile Send private message
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 12:41 am
Posts: 4754
Location: Tipping cows in fields Elysian
phanhuyen12 wrote:
If a woman is good enough, she should be able to compete with men.


Ok I will bite as this is actually a very interesting topic to me as I have done some academic reading on this and related issues termed "the throwing gap" (Google it well known and established fact of science with out an established agreed upon scientific explanation).

phanhuyen12 wrote:
Is that the reason that the PDC doesn't have a seperate women's circuit?


Lets start off by answering your second question first. PDC tried the women's thing, was a failure and resulted in an extremely embarrassing performance in the final which was held during the 2010 PDC Matchplay. Avg's was in the mid 60's nothing worth watching even by the ladies standard. The crowd was not too interested in the match either as a large portion of the crowd left before the match started. Many of the top women didn't even bother competing in it as the BDO vs PDC thing was a war still in progress.

Stacy Bromberg the ladies champ over the years made some comments on Facebook on the PDC and its treatment of the whole affair, which lets just say; she thought it was a great honor to carry the title but was very disappointed and had even said the PDC cocked the whole thing up by putting them up at the end of the night following the men. I got the impression that she felt the PDC treated the whole thing as a throw away event and didn't give them the showcase she thought they deserved. There was also a suggestion that because the PDC didn't get Ana in the final to showcase the whole thing got shit on by the PDC. She was supposed to be writing a book and she had said she was going to give some more in depth and detailed thoughts on the whole event. Unfortunately she passed away and I have no idea if the book was ever finished before her death.

The standard of the ladies game isn't even close to the men and with the exception of Mushrooms no one wants to watch players throwing turds at the board. (This part I am basically talking about 'merica as I know that market but not sure the UK is any different) Culturally men who are the primary market for sports watching don't give a shit about womens sport except for maybe ladies tennis and even that is still a relatively small cohort vs those watching other sports. And the ladies tennis game is played an extremely high level of performance and who have a group of women who can compete at that level consistently. As to women vs men playing darts. I am not sure men want to watch women compete against men other than the one off circus performance that occasionally take place. Who the fuck watches mixed doubles in tennis except for tennis aficionados.

More later on the first question, aren't you excited?

_________________
We Do Not Desire Tributes.
We Desire Information.
We Seek The Worm Drink Who Has Lately Betrayed His Nation


Fri May 04, 2018 12:38 pm
Profile Send private message
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 12:41 am
Posts: 4754
Location: Tipping cows in fields Elysian
Now onto the first question. Let the eye bleeding begin with a touch of seriously pedantic boredom. You have been warned; at the same time, I am not adverse to a few fuck offs either lol.

phanhuyen12 wrote:
It's not like that men have some kind of physical advantage that allows men to be better at darts than women, like in athletics, football or swimming.


Don't be so sure about that as I mentioned before the throwing gap is a real thing and there is some decent scientific evidence it exists in darts. Not surprising really as the male dominance in performance with tasks requiring motor skills is well documented in academic research. Read the following if your really interested in this:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/228794232_Dart_performance_as_a_function_of_facets_of_practice_amongst_professional_and_amateur_men_ana_women_players
Look in the Bibli as there are a couple articles listed there on dart throwing and the relation to a "throwing gap".

Of course darts doesn't require brute strength, but that doesn't mean it doesn't require some kind of muscle strength a.k.a muscle development. You need "muscle and blood" (great song by Glenn Hughes) to do any motor skills. Don't think darts requires strength? Talk to anyone who just started throwing darts and throws for a few hours straight, their arm is sore. That my friend is muscle fatigue because your fucking girly arms are weak and flabby. In a few months or several weeks one will be able to throw darts with ease for a few hours. Why? because you built up your muscle strength. Ok your not going to be bench pressing more and your pecks aren't going to be gazzy like but you built up strength in your fast twitch muscle and trained them to recover from fatigue quicker. This is muscle development plain and simple. Men generally do this better than women.

William O'Conor a few years ago was involved as a test subject in research into what happens to your muscles and how they fatigue in throwing darts. They had him hooked up to electrodes and some other shit to measure muscle fatigue. Not sure what the conclusions of this where as I never saw an academic published article on this specific endeavor. Not that I have looked real hard either. The article I read about this stated the preliminary research was showing that muscle fatigue resulting in a measured statistically significance of less accuracy started to set in after about 45 minutes of continuous throwing. Just more proof that throwing darts takes muscle strength.

What does the research mean in the context of the "throwing gap" in relation to men and women competing against each other?

It doesn't conclude that a woman could never beat a man nor does it conclude that a woman could never be consistent enough to compete at the highest level against men. What it does mean that the probability of it happening is lower than the result of other men being able to compete against other men consistently over time at the highest level. There probably and more than likely will be a woman or two maybe even three that will eventually find their way to be able to compete consistently against the top pro men. It won't ever be reflective of the pct's of men to women who play darts at the highest level. One of the reasons for this is the talent pool of men at the top end have a higher avg generally than the top women and there are far more men in that pool than there are women. Therefore those women who have the ability to throw at the same standard of the top men will be a much smaller pool of talent than men and less likely to be successful at the top end as we are far more likely to see men winning against men. Add to this the seeding factor in the PDC that lower quality players typically play better players so this tilts the probability of observing top women beating top men towards smaller. With me so far?

Next point. The "throwing gap" doesn't mean women can't get better with practice they can and will....hopefully. Research and applied sport physiology specifically in throwing sports like baseball have shown that with the right coaching some women will narrow that gap to the ability of men. Again that pool of women is small but with greater understanding of sport physiology and its application that gap between the most elite women and the avg top man could be reduced. No reason to believe that the same thing can't happen in darts and I would expect it would be easier in darts as there is a lot less about leverage and brute strength that is required in darts vs throwing a ball. Problem with darts is from the coaching perspective we have had a lot less years of understanding and applying techniques learned as darts is relatively a new thing compared to say baseball and cricket. Some catching up to do. In many sports there has been a shrinking gap between the performance of men and women over time, still a gap mind you but a shrinking gap of the top men vs the elite of elite women (these are the women that are above avg in the top women cohort). I could write a whole thing about increased participation and opportunity for women in pro sports as well as applied coaching techniques etc... as to why that gap is closing, but end of the day the research still shows a consistent gap between elite men and elite women.

Another issue: that the research as far as I have read, doesn't account for is the selection process of getting to the top end of the game. Because we have traditionally split comps by gender at most levels of the game we haven't had in place a sorting mechanism to find the women at the elite end of the pool talent who can compete at the top end of the game with men. I.E. the best women aren't playing the best men frequently enough to find out which women from that elite pool have the other qualities of being competitive that would show they have what it takes to be at the top end of the men's game consistently. Ok a few woman have given a go at GSOD, CT or whatever but they have been far and few between IMHO. If men and women are forced to compete at the top end more the sorting mechanism works with more accuracy over time to determine which women have the potential to raise their game. I.E. I.E. if I may, your only as good as the competition you play that pushes you to get better.

So to wrap this rather long boring shit post up and tie it in with the other previous boring shit post: The PDC shouldn't try to establish a womens only tour as no one wants to watch the shit. But I do think that dart fans would be interested in watching one or two of the women who do have the ability to compete against men at their standard when the occasion arises that they prove they have the ability to be there. It won't happen frequently (yet, time may change that but not convinced it will be a regular thing) but when it does it will be a selling point of interest for PDC darts to maybe expand interest in the game. Those infrequent opportunities will provide better bang for promotional buck than establishing a womens tour IMHO. And the best way to find those women is making them jump thru the hoops that the men have to jump thru as that test will be the one that gets the best women in the best position to compete against the men.

Let the fuck offs begin :pointing:

_________________
We Do Not Desire Tributes.
We Desire Information.
We Seek The Worm Drink Who Has Lately Betrayed His Nation


Fri May 04, 2018 3:46 pm
Profile Send private message

Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:17 pm
Posts: 100
phanhuyen12 wrote:
If a woman is good enough, she should be able to compete with men.

It's not like that men have some kind of physical advantage that allows men to be better at darts than women, like in athletics, football or swimming.
_________________
Image


in the vast majority of competitive activities that require no physical strength but where success is measured purely objectively and not subjectively, the leading practitioners are almost exclusively male. For example:

Chess - The leading women's chess player, Hou Yifan, has been described as "leaps and bounds" ahead of her competitors, but her FIDE rating is lower than the 100th best male player in the world.
Darts - Anastasia Dobromyslova, three times womens world champion, spent three years attempting to compete on the main tour and struggled to break into the top 100 of the world rankings.
Mathematics - In the International Mathematical Olympiad (IMO), only two of the 50 most successful competitors of all time are female. The IMO is the mathematics field most important world event, widely described as the "most prestigious mathematical competitions in the world" and vaguely equal to the Olympics, which is why it's called an Olympiad.
Snooker - Reanne Evans, by far the best womens player ever, won the Ladies World Snooker Championship a record ten successive times between 2005 and 2014 and at one point won 61 consecutive women's matches. She was awarded a wild card on the professional main tour for the 2010–11 season, and failed to win any matches throughout the entire season, suffering 18 consecutive defeats.
Quizzing - In the 15 year history of the World Quizzing Championship, only one woman, Dorjana Širola, has ever finished in the top 10, and she has never been in the top 5.
World richest people - Of the worlds 50 richest people, only five are women, and all of these inherited their wealth. Over half of the men in the top 50 are self made billionaires.

I have come across two theories about it:

1. Selection Bias - Less women actually do any of these things as per society defined rules, so there's less chances of the top women being anywhere near the top men because of the much smaller pool.
2. Men tend to have a flatter curve for most skills than women. In other words, there are more men who are absolutely terrible and more men who are utterly brilliant compared to women who tend to gravitate more towards the middle.


Fri May 04, 2018 4:35 pm
Profile Send private message

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:07 pm
Posts: 1580
a massive zebra wrote:
I have come across two theories about it:

1. Selection Bias - Less women actually do any of these things as per society defined rules, so there's less chances of the top women being anywhere near the top men because of the much smaller pool.
2. Men tend to have a flatter curve for most skills than women. In other words, there are more men who are absolutely terrible and more men who are utterly brilliant compared to women who tend to gravitate more towards the middle.

I'm leaning towards explanation #2. I used to think it's mainly #1, but as your list shows the issue is so wide-spread that that seems unlikely. Even if women are under-represented in any one given activity, when you have dozens such activities running in parallel, probability theory would indicate that an all-time great female practitioner should be emerging somewhere if women have comparable likelihood of excellence as men. Not to mention that something like chess has been running in organized form for over 100 years now. That's 5+ generations of competitors, plenty of time for somebody to emerge even out of lower absolute numbers. (After all, we're still talking about a subgroup that comprises around 50% of the human population overall, not "chess players from Togo" or some other wildly exotic group.)

I think we're generally seeing the best women are slowly getting better relative to the best men in those activities, but not nearly fast enough that any of those gaps will be disappearing in the near or even the distant future. Much of that slow improvement can probably simply be ascribed to increased levels of participation by women, so it doesn't really "mean" anything. And as we're seeing in darts especially, a more professional and more rewarding environment also enables improvement in male participants, so it doesn't even necessarily close the performance gap between men and women.


Fri May 04, 2018 8:27 pm
Profile Send private message
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:45 am
Posts: 270
Location: Parts Unknown
Image

Women are born to be walk on girls.

_________________
Image


Sat May 05, 2018 3:38 pm
Profile Send private message

Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2015 6:20 pm
Posts: 1159
Steve Davis said at one point he thought men were more designed to obsess over more "pointless" things like being good at snooker or darts for example than women, who spend their time doing more important things. He was called sexist for that, because the world is mad.


Mon May 07, 2018 2:41 am
Profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 15 posts ] 

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Tommo and 18 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Designed by STSoftware.