The Darts Forum

TheMalteseDart wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2024 9:07 pm

The Thorn wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2024 8:56 pm To be honest I'm fine with it either way.

Men have an inherent advantage in darts. It's however up to debate if the advantage is significant enough to warrant a separate field. Some trans players might have an advantage but it's really only one player, it's not a widespread thing. From an inclusivity and diversity standpoint I would support trans woman being involved, the question is if the sporting and fairness standpoint outweighs it. Debatable.

Well it would be all well and good for your diversitity standpoint if Noa earned her crust in a mixed field, like she did the other week at the challenge tour, not at the women's series. Also whatever side you're on 'there's only 1 so it's fine' is a terrible point.

Ignoring the hand eye coordination study in darts that was undertaken everytime Noa steps into that women's field she's automatically at an advantage as she's never going to have to deal with the issues the rest of the field may be going through at the time, such as having periods or going through menopause. These would obviously have an impact on performance. Over the course of a yearly tour, she will play against all players going through this at one point, where as she never has that distraction. I recall Till on Twitter called these 'ailments' and compared it to Mervyn King's bad back. Disgusting.

Greipel wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2024 9:31 pm

The Thorn wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2024 9:03 pm

meetthefeebles wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2024 8:59 pm

The Thorn wrote:To be honest I'm fine with it either way.

Men have an inherent advantage in darts. It's however up to debate if the advantage is significant enough to warrant a separate field. Some trans players might have an advantage but it's really only one player, it's not a widespread thing. From an inclusivity and diversity standpoint I would support trans woman being involved, the question is if the sporting and fairness standpoint outweighs it. Debatable.

They should have their own category and competitions, I think. No-one is saying they shouldn't be able to play, but it had to be fair to all involved.

I agree in theory, but. There wouldn't be enough entries to make a trans only category worthwhile. So this is practically the same as excluding them from women's comps.

Add me, yourself, CWS, Hobo, Smithy and Victor Monaghan, plus we already have Noah, so it's already 7. I'm sure around 20 at least could join the field from other places.

Captain Hobo wrote: ↑Sun Mar 24, 2024 12:01 am

Greipel wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2024 9:31 pm

The Thorn wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2024 9:03 pm

meetthefeebles wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2024 8:59 pm

The Thorn wrote:To be honest I'm fine with it either way.

Men have an inherent advantage in darts. It's however up to debate if the advantage is significant enough to warrant a separate field. Some trans players might have an advantage but it's really only one player, it's not a widespread thing. From an inclusivity and diversity standpoint I would support trans woman being involved, the question is if the sporting and fairness standpoint outweighs it. Debatable.

They should have their own category and competitions, I think. No-one is saying they shouldn't be able to play, but it had to be fair to all involved.

I agree in theory, but. There wouldn't be enough entries to make a trans only category worthwhile. So this is practically the same as excluding them from women's comps.

Add me, yourself, CWS, Hobo, Smithy and Victor Monaghan, plus we already have Noah, so it's already 7. I'm sure around 20 at least could join the field from other places.

Sorry to burst your bubble mate, but I am not trans.

Greipel wrote: ↑Sun Mar 24, 2024 12:41 am

Captain Hobo wrote: ↑Sun Mar 24, 2024 12:01 am

Greipel wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2024 9:31 pm

The Thorn wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2024 9:03 pm

meetthefeebles wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2024 8:59 pm They should have their own category and competitions, I think. No-one is saying they shouldn't be able to play, but it had to be fair to all involved.

I agree in theory, but. There wouldn't be enough entries to make a trans only category worthwhile. So this is practically the same as excluding them from women's comps.

Add me, yourself, CWS, Hobo, Smithy and Victor Monaghan, plus we already have Noah, so it's already 7. I'm sure around 20 at least could join the field from other places.

Sorry to burst your bubble mate, but I am not trans.

Liar.

Randall wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2024 8:49 pm

Dfc180 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2024 8:46 pm As there isn't a physical advantage to what sex you are at darts as you throw from the same distance at the same target, it shouldn't really matter, so I agree

Men have proven better hand eye coordination

PT13 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 24, 2024 4:27 am

Randall wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2024 8:49 pm

Dfc180 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2024 8:46 pm As there isn't a physical advantage to what sex you are at darts as you throw from the same distance at the same target, it shouldn't really matter, so I agree

Men have proven better hand eye coordination

It's more that men are better at being single minded, and women are better at multi-tasking. There are some exceptions, but that's the general trend.

Unlike a sport like athletics or tennis, there is no physical reason why women can't play darts to the same standard as men.

PT13 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 24, 2024 4:27 am

Randall wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2024 8:49 pm

Dfc180 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2024 8:46 pm As there isn't a physical advantage to what sex you are at darts as you throw from the same distance at the same target, it shouldn't really matter, so I agree

Men have proven better hand eye coordination

It's more that men are better at being single minded, and women are better at multi-tasking. There are some exceptions, but that's the general trend.

Unlike a sport like athletics or tennis, there is no physical reason why women can't play darts to the same standard as men.

PT13 wrote:

Randall wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2024 8:49 pm

Dfc180 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2024 8:46 pm As there isn't a physical advantage to what sex you are at darts as you throw from the same distance at the same target, it shouldn't really matter, so I agree

Men have proven better hand eye coordination

It's more that men are better at being single minded, and women are better at multi-tasking. There are some exceptions, but that's the general trend.

Unlike a sport like athletics or tennis, there is no physical reason why women can't play darts to the same standard as men.

meetthefeebles wrote: ↑Sun Mar 24, 2024 11:37 am

PT13 wrote:

Randall wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2024 8:49 pm

Dfc180 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2024 8:46 pm As there isn't a physical advantage to what sex you are at darts as you throw from the same distance at the same target, it shouldn't really matter, so I agree

Men have proven better hand eye coordination

It's more that men are better at being single minded, and women are better at multi-tasking. There are some exceptions, but that's the general trend.

Unlike a sport like athletics or tennis, there is no physical reason why women can't play darts to the same standard as men.

All the best scientific evidence shows that women have less hand-eye coordination than men. See, for example: https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... onal_Study

It isn't a physical exertion difference. It's this which makes it unfair.

oche balboa wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2024 10:54 am When people say "There is no reason why Women can't play at the same standard as men" but failed to realise that in 40-50 years we don't have a ladies player who would be within the top 32 in the world. Several have been close but are still a long way off

Why haven't we seen this yet??

Rogg wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2024 11:38 am

oche balboa wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2024 10:54 am When people say "There is no reason why Women can't play at the same standard as men" but failed to realise that in 40-50 years we don't have a ladies player who would be within the top 32 in the world. Several have been close but are still a long way off

Why haven't we seen this yet??

I'll ignore the physical aspect (even though I shouldn't) and look at it from a different angle.

If darts until now had been mostly a female pursuit, and men were only just getting into it now in a serious way, the best male player currently could be Ted Evetts (no offence Ted).

This wouldn't mean that fantastic male players don't exist. It would just mean that we hadn't found them yet, because the message and the opportunities hadn't yet spread far and wide enough to get their attention. The whole of the current world's top 32 would still be out there somewhere, just not playing darts in a serious way.

In the same way, perhaps the current best female players are quite average compared to the talent that is actually out there. Women may have been playing darts for a century but that it's a life-changing opportunity for them is an extremely recent fact. Women need to be engaged, motivated and rewarded if we are to the find the very best of them. That's the work of the PDC machine and they have barely started yet.

oche balboa wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2024 11:40 am

Rogg wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2024 11:38 am

oche balboa wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2024 10:54 am When people say "There is no reason why Women can't play at the same standard as men" but failed to realise that in 40-50 years we don't have a ladies player who would be within the top 32 in the world. Several have been close but are still a long way off

Why haven't we seen this yet??

I'll ignore the physical aspect (even though I shouldn't) and look at it from a different angle.

If darts until now had been mostly a female pursuit, and men were only just getting into it now in a serious way, the best male player currently could be Ted Evetts (no offence Ted).

This wouldn't mean that fantastic male players don't exist. It would just mean that we hadn't found them yet, because the message and the opportunities hadn't yet spread far and wide enough to get their attention. The whole of the current world's top 32 would still be out there somewhere, just not playing darts in a serious way.

In the same way, perhaps the current best female players are quite average compared to the talent that is actually out there. Women may have been playing darts for a century but that it's a life-changing opportunity for them is an extremely recent fact. Women need to be engaged, motivated and rewarded if we are to the find the very best of them. That's the work of the PDC machine and they have barely started yet.

Thats a fair comment, Perhaps the greatest ladies player never threw a dart

Potter's Lake wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2024 11:58 am It's no coincidence that so many of the top players were all born within a few years of each other, growing up just as the Sky machine was clicking into gear, nor will it be a coincidence in a decade when a chunk of the elite are in their teens and 20s thanks to the Littler effect. Women are now starting to have that moment. I binned Bill Oddie because of woke that whole bit became redundant.

meetthefeebles wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2024 9:10 pm

The Thorn wrote:

meetthefeebles wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2024 8:59 pm

The Thorn wrote:To be honest I'm fine with it either way.

Men have an inherent advantage in darts. It's however up to debate if the advantage is significant enough to warrant a separate field. Some trans players might have an advantage but it's really only one player, it's not a widespread thing. From an inclusivity and diversity standpoint I would support trans woman being involved, the question is if the sporting and fairness standpoint outweighs it. Debatable.

They should have their own category and competitions, I think. No-one is saying they shouldn't be able to play, but it had to be fair to all involved.

I agree in theory, but. There wouldn't be enough entries to make a trans only category worthwhile. So this is practically the same as excluding them from women's comps.

It's simply a timescale issue, though. There will probably be enough to justify a specific category tourney in five years or so.

In the meantime, a compromise is probably needed, and the best compromise is to insist that biological males play with the men.