Pro Wrestling

[Jimmi]

Since Vince died they've actively listened, good to see.

He didn’t really get blown up in that limo explosion in 2007

[Cooking with Sanchez]

Pity.

[sennafan24]

I consider HHH to be a very average in-ring performer, especially after his injury in 2001. His major bouts were often drawn out affairs in which he didn't have the skill to fill the space effectively.

That said, he does understand pro wrestling. He always knew how to politic backstage to ensure his character remained strong (sometimes unnecessarily so and to the detriment of others), and he vetoed the RAW writer's daft suggestion that they book him and Batista in a singles match in late 2004 rather than save it for a major PPV (a decision that turned out to be wise)

It therefore doesn't surprise me that he's turned out to be a decent booker. I'm not a regular viewer, but last I checked WWE's house show business was the strongest it's been in years.

Gotta admire his way of shagging his way to the top

Dating Stephanie was what probably made him a made man in WWF/E. However, even before he started dating Stephanie he was established as a main eventer. Mostly due to Vince and Foley's handy work at the end of 1999 and beginning of 2000. Before then his title reign was flopping.

Funnily enough, his status in the industry might be vulnerable at the moment. From a recent Meltzer article regarding the Vince scandal:

“He's the f’n cerebral assassin, best politicking dude in history, literally wormed his way from a green, entry level wrestler into a (still, average wrestler) absolute top of the office, executive, you think he doesn't pay attention to what's going on around him?” said one of the biggest company stars of the modern era. “Think he did that without knowing every little thing everywhere in that company? Yet somehow this slipped past his radar?”

“The thing about that place is if TKO starts cleaning house, they're gonna show up with a bucket and some Lysol, then realize that shits in the walls, in the floorboards, they're gonna have to bring out the sledgehammer (because) that shit is gonna turn into a demolition job. Down to the foundation, sledgehammer pun not intended.”

[shenmue]

I enjoyed hhh matches from 98-2001, but he got way too big in 2002,slowed his matches down even more.

I watched his hell in a cell match with big Dave a few days ago, he was still capable after 2002 of having good matches but mostly gimmick matches, series of matches with hbk were pretty good for example.

[sennafan24]

I enjoyed hhh matches from 98-2001, but he got way too big in 2002,slowed his matches down even more.

I watched his hell in a cell match with big Dave a few days ago, he was still capable after 2002 of having good matches but mostly gimmick matches, series of matches with hbk were pretty good for example.

HHH needed his gimmicks, especially after 2000. It's amazing how many of his PPV main events in the 2000s are gimmicked or have multiple people in them. In straight singles, his major bouts were often average (WM 19 with Booker, WM 21 with Batista, WM 25 with Orton, etc)

Even with gimmicks he could fail to deliver. As an example, his HITC with Shawn Michaels in 2004 was far too long and ponderous. In fact, I didn't enjoy any of their bouts. I watched their Summerslam 2002 bout back recently and didn't think it had aged well at all.

I haven't watched his 2005 HITC bout with Batista back yet. I do recall reading they pulled a minor miracle.

[Jimmi]

I consider HHH to be a very average in-ring performer, especially after his injury in 2001. His major bouts were often drawn out affairs in which he didn't have the skill to fill the space effectively.

That said, he does understand pro wrestling. He always knew how to politic backstage to ensure his character remained strong (sometimes unnecessarily so and to the detriment of others), and he vetoed the RAW writer's daft suggestion that they book him and Batista in a singles match in late 2004 rather than save it for a major PPV (a decision that turned out to be wise)

It therefore doesn't surprise me that he's turned out to be a decent booker. I'm not a regular viewer, but last I checked WWE's house show business was the strongest it's been in years.

Gotta admire his way of shagging his way to the top

Dating Stephanie was what probably made him a made man in WWF/E. However, even before he started dating Stephanie he was established as a main eventer. Mostly due to Vince and Foley's handy work at the end of 1999 and beginning of 2000. Before then his title reign was flopping.

Funnily enough, his status in the industry might be vulnerable at the moment. From a recent Meltzer article regarding the Vince scandal:

“He's the f’n cerebral assassin, best politicking dude in history, literally wormed his way from a green, entry level wrestler into a (still, average wrestler) absolute top of the office, executive, you think he doesn't pay attention to what's going on around him?” said one of the biggest company stars of the modern era. “Think he did that without knowing every little thing everywhere in that company? Yet somehow this slipped past his radar?”

“The thing about that place is if TKO starts cleaning house, they're gonna show up with a bucket and some Lysol, then realize that shits in the walls, in the floorboards, they're gonna have to bring out the sledgehammer (because) that shit is gonna turn into a demolition job. Down to the foundation, sledgehammer pun not intended.”

I think he only really became a main eventer due to both Austin being injured at the time, along with Michaels and possibly The Undertaker, which is why HHH feuded with The Rock for so long
I’m sure Austin (apparently) refused to put him over at Summerslam 99

And I have read that his position might be under threat after The Rock became a board member for the company that purchased WWE

[sennafan24]

I think he only really became a main eventer due to both Austin being injured at the time, along with Michaels and possibly The Undertaker, which is why HHH feuded with The Rock for so long
I’m sure Austin (apparently) refused to put him over at Summerslam 99

And I have read that his position might be under threat after The Rock became a board member for the company that purchased WWE

Iirc, Austin was offered to work with either Billy Gunn, Double J, or HHH. Austin chose HHH, but did indeed refuse to lose to him at SS 99. Instead Foley pinned Austin to win the belt, who then dropped it to HHH.

HHH flopped as a main eventer initially until Vince and Foley put him over big in late 99 and early 2000. After that the fans accepted him more as a main event heel.

By the end of 2000 and early 2001, he was playing politics backstage successfully. For example, he killed off the love triangle story line because he didn't want his character to look weak due to losing his girlfriend to Angle.

[Jimmi]

I think he only really became a main eventer due to both Austin being injured at the time, along with Michaels and possibly The Undertaker, which is why HHH feuded with The Rock for so long
I’m sure Austin (apparently) refused to put him over at Summerslam 99

And I have read that his position might be under threat after The Rock became a board member for the company that purchased WWE

Iirc, Austin was offered to work with either Billy Gunn, Double J, or HHH. Austin chose HHH, but did indeed refuse to lose to him at SS 99. Instead Foley pinned Austin to win the belt, who then dropped it to HHH.

HHH flopped as a main eventer initially until Vince and Foley put him over big in late 99 and early 2000. After that the fans seemed to accept him as a main event heel.

By the end of 2000 and early 2001, he was playing politics backstage successfully. For example, he killed off the love triangle story line because he didn't want his character to look weak due to losing his girlfriend to Angle.

That worked out best for Austin in the long run
Imagine feuding with Billy Gunn
Whose career never recovered after The Rock tore him to shreds

Wasn’t Angle portrayed mostly as a goof for the majority of they storyline?

[sennafan24]

That worked out best for Austin in the long run
Imagine feuding with Billy Gunn
Whose career never recovered after The Rock tore him to shreds

Wasn’t Angle portrayed mostly as a goof for the majority of they storyline?

Aye, he was. Angle didn't really care about the credibility of his character. Hence why he allowed himself to be booked as a stalker later on in 2005.

HHH didn't think it would be realistic for his character to lose his girlfriend. Which was his reasoning for getting the storyline canned.

[Jimmi]

That worked out best for Austin in the long run
Imagine feuding with Billy Gunn
Whose career never recovered after The Rock tore him to shreds

Wasn’t Angle portrayed mostly as a goof for the majority of they storyline?

Aye, he was. Angle didn't really care about the credibility of his character. Hence why he allowed himself to be booked as a stalker later on in 2005.

HHH didn't think it would be realistic for his character to lose his girlfriend. Which was his reasoning for getting the storyline canned.

I remember that weird angle with Booker T and Sharmell and the infamous “Beastiality sex” line
Good job he was a fantastic in-ring performer

I’m sure he got plenty of other storylines quashed because it wasn’t realistic for his character

[sennafan24]

I remember that weird angle with Booker T and Sharmell and the infamous “Beastiality sex” line
Good job he was a fantastic in-ring performer

I’m sure he got plenty of other storylines quashed because it wasn’t realistic for his character

HHH vetoed turning face after Wrestlemania 17 apparently and instead attached himself to Austin (2-man power trip).

[shenmue]

12 year old me loved the power trip. I remember being amazed when they battered lita with the steel chair, couldn't do that today.

Shame hhh got injured in that great tag match on raw with austin vs jericho and the child killer.

[sennafan24]

12 year old me loved the power trip. I remember being amazed when they battered lita with the steel chair, couldn't do that today.

Shame hhh got injured in that great tag match on raw with austin vs jericho and the child killer.

Fans didn't want to boo Austin.

It also didn't help that there wasn't a strong/fresh babyface for him to work with. He'd already faced Taker a million times by that point, Angle was a goof, etc. Hence why his heel run bombed.

In the ring Austin was better than ever though. Best in the world at the time.

[shenmue]

Yeah even though i enjoyed some of austin's paranoid heel segments where be battered the likes of tazz, spike, jim Ross, Michal Cole etc, he shouldn't have turned,as you say he was still way too popular. I really didn't like him joining the alliance but that whole invasion storyline sucked anyway.

Loved his summerslam 01 match with angle, a rare ppv title match where i didn't mind the dq finish

[sennafan24]

Yeah even though i enjoyed some of austin's paranoid heel segments where be battered the likes of tazz, spike, jim Ross, Michal Cole etc, he shouldn't have turned,as you say he was still way too popular. I really didn't like him joining the alliance but that whole invasion storyline sucked anyway.

Loved his summerslam 01 match with angle, a rare ppv title match where i didn't mind the dq finish

Agreed with both paragraphs.

The invasion storyline was a huge botch. It's like it was written by someone who hadn't lived through the wrestling war and hadn't bothered to research it.

Summerslam 2001 was Angle's best bout imo. Austin's TV bouts with Benoit and WM match with Rock were of similar quality. He also had a fun TV strap match with Regal at the end of the year.

[Jimmi]

Austin has said on multiple occasions that he should have stunnered Vince at the end of WM17

[sennafan24]

Austin has said on multiple occasions that he should have stunnered Vince at the end of WM17

Aye.

Austin's performances in segments and in the ring were superb. The issues were the terrible booking and the fans just not wanting to boo him.

It was like watching a great acting performance from an actor in a miscast role and in a terribly written film.

Had they kept him face business would not have declined as steeply. They probably should have turned Rock heel and had him work with Austin later in the summer once he returned from Hollywood.

[Jimmi]

Austin has said on multiple occasions that he should have stunnered Vince at the end of WM17

Aye.

Austin's performances in segments and in the ring were superb. The issues were the terrible booking and the fans just not wanting to boo him.

It was like watching a great acting performance from an actor in a miscast role and in a terribly written film.

Had they kept him face business would not have declined as steeply. They probably should have turned Rock heel and had him work with Austin later in the summer once he returned from Hollywood.

Agreed, turning him heel was a bad move and he didn’t want to do it
Although, I did enjoy is heel work but why fix something that isn’t broken?
And one of those Meltzer observer newsletters I’ve read around the time of WM17, he speculated that they were going to turn Austin heel, so it must have been in the works for a while

[sennafan24]

Agreed, turning him heel was a bad move and he didn’t want to do it
Although, I did enjoy is heel work but why fix something that isn’t broken?
And one of those Meltzer observer newsletters I’ve read around the time of WM17, he speculated that they were going to turn Austin heel, so it must have been in the works for a while

Aye, Meltzer knew beforehand and was a detractor of the move for reasons we've already established. Meltzer stated years later that they should have turned Rock instead.

There is a theory that the heel turn could have worked with better booking, but given the cast they had at the time I don't think they had a babyface strong or fresh enough for it for to work. In hindsight they should have built a strong heel up in late 2000/early 2001 for Austin to work with post WM-17. Then transition back to Austin vs Rock (with Rock as heel) over the summer.

Apparently Austin was in favour of turning heel at the time. I assume, given what you posted above, he know he regrets it.

[Jimmi]

Agreed, turning him heel was a bad move and he didn’t want to do it
Although, I did enjoy is heel work but why fix something that isn’t broken?
And one of those Meltzer observer newsletters I’ve read around the time of WM17, he speculated that they were going to turn Austin heel, so it must have been in the works for a while

Aye, Meltzer knew beforehand and was a detractor of the move for reasons we've already established. Meltzer stated years later that they should have turned Rock instead.

There is a theory that the heel turn could have worked with better booking, but given the cast they had at the time I don't think they had a babyface strong or fresh enough for it for to work. In hindsight they should have built a strong heel up in late 2000/early 2001 for Austin to work with post WM-17. Then transition back to Austin vs Rock (with Rock as heel) over the summer.

Apparently Austin was in favour of turning heel at the time. I assume, given what you posted above, he know he regrets it.

Who would you say they should have built up as a heel for him? Ideally, someone who he hadn’t feuded with constantly in the 90’s would help to keep it fresh

They tried it with Rikishi and that failed miserably

A heel Eddie perhaps?