Is Novice to Pro possible?

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8 Dart King
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Re: Is Novice to Pro possible?

Post by 8 Dart King » Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:06 pm

cannibal wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:39 pm
10 days into the new year, where is this little cunt? Did he quit before he even got started?
😂 where is this little cunt 😂

masteringdarts
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Re: Is Novice to Pro possible?

Post by masteringdarts » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:51 pm

Haha, I have been doing 2 hours a day and last weekend I decided to do round the world doubles and record how many darts it took me for each one. I will look to do this weekly and use this to see if I’m improving. The results were as follows and followed around a warm up of approx 30 mins....

D1 - 12
D2 - 14
D3 - 2
D4 - 18
D5 - 16
D6 - 1
D7 - 2
D8 - 13
D9 - 27
D10 - 9
D11 - 1
D12 - 3
D13 - 1
D14 - 18
D15 - 4
D16 - 3
D17 - 14
D18 - 21
D19 - 10
D20- 16
Bull - 7

So in total to hit all doubles and the bull it took 212 darts which equates to 10.1 darts per double.

No idea how good/bad this is but gives me something to work with. I plan on doing this every week and see how the improvement is.

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Re: Is Novice to Pro possible?

Post by masteringdarts » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:52 pm

I was posting most of my comments on an alternative forum however will make sure to do it on both from now on.

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Re: Is Novice to Pro possible?

Post by Randall » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:53 pm

Nobody likes d9
Image

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Re: Is Novice to Pro possible?

Post by masteringdarts » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:57 pm

Randall wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:53 pm
Nobody likes d9
:lol: caused me a few problems

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Re: Is Novice to Pro possible?

Post by Randall » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:00 am

masteringdarts wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:57 pm
Randall wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:53 pm
Nobody likes d9
:lol: caused me a few problems
Always avoided d18 for that reason.
Image

whiteycj1
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Re: Is Novice to Pro possible?

Post by whiteycj1 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:09 am

Fascinating post. I haven't read all of the replies, however I think the answer is 'yes' but depending on certain variables. One is age. I'm a fan of Syed's work and a believer in the 'practice-over-talent' theory although it takes a hell of a lot of practice (some say 10,000 hours is the magic number!). Can you cram all of that in before you reach an age of physical decline? Two hours a week won't move the needle but if you build up that schedule and end practicing excessively, you can get there if you have time on your side. Would love to see the video progress - where will you be posting it?

I recently started sponsoring an amateur who's going to Q-School this month - he's 33. He's played a lot, up to county level but never really dedicated time to practice or had the funds to pit his wits against better players by entering competitions (which are a cost). He's making great progress - throwing some really impressive darts and has a decent chance. Good luck with the project anyway!

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Re: Is Novice to Pro possible?

Post by 8 Dart King » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:01 pm

masteringdarts wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:51 pm
Haha, I have been doing 2 hours a day and last weekend I decided to do round the world doubles and record how many darts it took me for each one. I will look to do this weekly and use this to see if I’m improving. The results were as follows and followed around a warm up of approx 30 mins....

D1 - 12
D2 - 14
D3 - 2
D4 - 18
D5 - 16
D6 - 1
D7 - 2
D8 - 13
D9 - 27
D10 - 9
D11 - 1
D12 - 3
D13 - 1
D14 - 18
D15 - 4
D16 - 3
D17 - 14
D18 - 21
D19 - 10
D20- 16
Bull - 7

So in total to hit all doubles and the bull it took 212 darts which equates to 10.1 darts per double.

No idea how good/bad this is but gives me something to work with. I plan on doing this every week and see how the improvement is.
I just had a go

D1 - 11
D2 - 1
D3 - 4
D4 - 3
D5 - 3
D6 - 3
D7 - 2
D8 - 5
D9 - 2
D10 - 2
D11 - 11
D12 - 2
D13 - 4
D14 - 9
D15 - 4
D16 - 4
D17 - 1
D18 - 1
D19 - 5
D20- 1
Bull - 17

95 darts in total. I practice about an hour a day and play twice a week in leagues. Gives you something to compare too. Keep it up mate

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Re: Is Novice to Pro possible?

Post by masteringdarts » Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:27 pm

First of all thanks a lot to the last two posters, these two reponses are two of the best I have had across both forums (normally it’s people claiming it’s not real)

In regards to the 10,000 hour rule I feel that darts unlike many other sports only has one main technique to master. After this it is simply tweaking it very slightly. For this reason I think the sport can be mastered in much less time. Currently I am only willing to commit to around two hours practise a day and plan to do this for 3-4 months. After this time I will re assess where I am at and decide if it is worth increasig this time. I must say that I feel the progress so far has been very quick. Without being big headed I was always good at sport at school and picked things up quickly, playing county level or better in several disciplines. If I do decide to increase the practise time I will also look to start playing competitively as many people have suggested this is vital but for now just want to focus on technique and being able to hit every target on the board.

I was planning on recording all practise so people could see that I was actually doing it but after the negaticely of original posts I decided against the extra costs and effort. It could be something that I do try and encorperate though.

My age is 29 so I feel I have plenty of time to give this a good go.

I carried out another recorded game of round the world and these are my results (very pleased with the progress)

1 - 4
2 - 1
3 - 2
4 - 14
5 - 7
6 - 5
7 - 9
8 - 6
9 - 2
10 - 11
11 - 3
12 - 9
13 - 6
14- 11
15- 9
16 -5
17- 5
18- 1
19- 8
20- 6
Bull - 9

So this time it took me 133 darts which equates to 6.3 darts per double.

Couple of questions I have myself.....

To the poster who has recently sponsored a player do you mind going into a little more detail on the costs associated with trying to get onto the darts tour?

To the poster who posted their scores, what level do you currently play at comparatively twice a week?

Thanks again.

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Re: Is Novice to Pro possible?

Post by 8 Dart King » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:12 am

I’m just a pub player. Play in div 1s of local leagues. Im 36, been playing on and off since I was about 13. Never really practiced since I was 19 but 6 months ago I decided that I want to play Superleague in the near future so I’ve been putting in an hour a night. I tend to average around 60 - 65 but I won’t even consider Superleague till I’m averaging 70 which I will get to I’m sure. I have it in me. I done an 8 dart finish (180,180,41) a few years back in my local league which had never been achieved in 30 years. I hit a few 180’s a night. But I can also be shit sometimes, I try not to dwell on that. If you asked my opinion on whether you’ll make it as a professional I’d say I’m 99.9% sure you won’t. I’ve played county players and they are quality but most of those boys don’t have a hope in hell. Join a local team, enter local competitions because you won’t progress if you just practice at home without testing yourself. Totally different game when you’re playing in front of people.

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Re: Is Novice to Pro possible?

Post by HalloweenJack » Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:15 am

masteringdarts wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:13 pm
Hi,

I am new to this forum and am hoping to get some advice on a new project I am undertaking in the new year. I apologise in advance if you see the message in multiple forums as I am posting it in several different ones so I am able to get as much feedback as possible.

In a nutshell, I am aiming to prove or disprove whether someone with very little experience in Darts is able to make it to a professional tour with enough practise and if so how much can they actually achieve? The idea came to me after reading the book “Bounce” by Matthew Syed and having many debates with family and friends on whether talent is something you are born with or it is something learned (Nature v Nurture).

I want to make something very clear from the start and that is that I am not trying to belittle the sport in any way or say that it is easy to become professional in. To reach an elite level in any sport requires skill, hard work and sacrifice and darts is no different. The reasons why it has been chosen are listed below…

1. Individual Sport – effective practise can be done at any time without the need for teammates or a coach.
2. Played indoors – again practise can be done at any time and regardless of things such as weather.
3. Closed loop skill – the skill of throwing the dart where you want it to go is closed loop and remains very similar regardless of which part of the board you are aiming for. Therefore, all practise time can be used to master this one skill whereas in other sports there are many different things which need to be mastered.

From a young age I have always played lots of different sports with my main sport being football, which I played at a semi -professional level for many years. As a result of this I would say that I am already very well co-ordinated and have a competitive edge which I believe will dramatically reduce the number of hours needed to reach my goal.

In terms of previous experience with darts I have only ever played with friends, mainly playing fun games rather than the competition 501 format. I would probably say over the past 10 years I have played no more than 20 hours worth of the game.

For the first six months I will look to have a minimum of 2 hours of practise per day with the hope of getting closer to 20 hours per week. The aim is to show some good early progress in this time which will then lead to more and more people hearing about it and following it with interest. I would then use this to try and gain some sort of sponsorship which would allow me to practise full time and hopefully get to 35-55 hours of practise a week.

All practise will be recorded with a webcam and videos along with stats will be uploaded weekly to a blog so progress can be clearly tracked. After doing a little bit of research I came across a man called Justin Irwin who unsuccessfully attempted something similar, however, with no detailed record of practise and progress there is no way of telling what actually happened.

So now that you have a good understanding of my plans I was hoping to get some opinions from people who know a lot more about the sport than I do and even some advice on how best to go about my practise?

I look forward to hearing back from you.

Thanks.
Let’s assume you have a bit of talent and are good?
Why not try the UK open pub qualifiers? If you get to the last 64 you get almost £2000 ( based on 2018 prize money)
Let’s say you did this and won some money, I would assume your project would get some publicity, and you would be more inclined to get potential sponsorship.

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Re: Is Novice to Pro possible?

Post by 8 Dart King » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:46 am

HalloweenJack wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:15 am
masteringdarts wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:13 pm
Hi,

I am new to this forum and am hoping to get some advice on a new project I am undertaking in the new year. I apologise in advance if you see the message in multiple forums as I am posting it in several different ones so I am able to get as much feedback as possible.

In a nutshell, I am aiming to prove or disprove whether someone with very little experience in Darts is able to make it to a professional tour with enough practise and if so how much can they actually achieve? The idea came to me after reading the book “Bounce” by Matthew Syed and having many debates with family and friends on whether talent is something you are born with or it is something learned (Nature v Nurture).

I want to make something very clear from the start and that is that I am not trying to belittle the sport in any way or say that it is easy to become professional in. To reach an elite level in any sport requires skill, hard work and sacrifice and darts is no different. The reasons why it has been chosen are listed below…

1. Individual Sport – effective practise can be done at any time without the need for teammates or a coach.
2. Played indoors – again practise can be done at any time and regardless of things such as weather.
3. Closed loop skill – the skill of throwing the dart where you want it to go is closed loop and remains very similar regardless of which part of the board you are aiming for. Therefore, all practise time can be used to master this one skill whereas in other sports there are many different things which need to be mastered.

From a young age I have always played lots of different sports with my main sport being football, which I played at a semi -professional level for many years. As a result of this I would say that I am already very well co-ordinated and have a competitive edge which I believe will dramatically reduce the number of hours needed to reach my goal.

In terms of previous experience with darts I have only ever played with friends, mainly playing fun games rather than the competition 501 format. I would probably say over the past 10 years I have played no more than 20 hours worth of the game.

For the first six months I will look to have a minimum of 2 hours of practise per day with the hope of getting closer to 20 hours per week. The aim is to show some good early progress in this time which will then lead to more and more people hearing about it and following it with interest. I would then use this to try and gain some sort of sponsorship which would allow me to practise full time and hopefully get to 35-55 hours of practise a week.

All practise will be recorded with a webcam and videos along with stats will be uploaded weekly to a blog so progress can be clearly tracked. After doing a little bit of research I came across a man called Justin Irwin who unsuccessfully attempted something similar, however, with no detailed record of practise and progress there is no way of telling what actually happened.

So now that you have a good understanding of my plans I was hoping to get some opinions from people who know a lot more about the sport than I do and even some advice on how best to go about my practise?

I look forward to hearing back from you.

Thanks.
Let’s assume you have a bit of talent and are good?
Why not try the UK open pub qualifiers? If you get to the last 64 you get almost £2000 ( based on 2018 prize money)
Let’s say you did this and won some money, I would assume your project would get some publicity, and you would be more inclined to get potential sponsorship.
Is this a bit tongue in cheek? The quality of the field is top draw. Couple of years back it was people like Ryan Searle, Rob Cross and Paul Hogan that qualified. I’d definitely recommend he go for a bit of experience and to open his eyes a bit but let’s not talk bollocks. I’ll be going and my aim is to win a couple of matches, realistic goals

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Re: Is Novice to Pro possible?

Post by Gunga Din » Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:11 pm

I started playing about 4 years ago. I used to play in my teens but hadn't played in about 15 years. I played for an hour or so a day initially. the first month or so I was terrible, darts spraying all over the 18s and 12s when aiming for 20's. But then i found my range and over the next 6 months made significant progress. I played mostly against an app on my phone and was starting to get sub 21 dart legs semi regularly and hit a few sub 15 dart legs. I had a go at the UK Open Qualifiers for a laugh more than anything. I got a bye in the first round, won my first game playing some decent darts, but then lost the second game because the fella I played was just far too good. I think i had about 3 darts at a double during the whole game. To go from novice to pro in a short period of time, unless you are seriously naturally talented is all but impossible. If you aren't getting checked out in 5 or 6 visits every other leg you haven't got a snowballs chance

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Re: Is Novice to Pro possible?

Post by cannibal » Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:06 pm

But surely hard work is the key. The good old Protestant Work Effort one can achieve anything. I am certain if one works hard enough at squeezing coal between your arse cheeks you can create a diamond. Just need the right person to come forward and test the proposition, then of course video it so we can see the progress.

Seriously: hard work only gets you so far in sport and other things like music for e.g. Without natural ability your not going to reach the top levels.
Even more seriously it is obvious from the OP that he hasn't got a fucking clue nor has he even tried to get one about the whole situation of darts and obtaining the upper end of the game. The whole thing is a lark, but I certainly hope he keeps posting here as end of the day is going to provide some fine entertainment.
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Re: Is Novice to Pro possible?

Post by masteringdarts » Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:54 pm

:lol: :lol:

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Re: Is Novice to Pro possible?

Post by cannibal » Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:26 pm

It is good that your laughing but if you honestly don't see the truth of what I am saying then your not going to get anywhere. Fundamentally I think you think that darts is a rather one or maybe two dimensional sport or game if you care to call it that or either. It seems to me you think it is just a matter of hitting targets and getting good at that. In the simple of simplistic sense your not far off the mark if your just interested in being a handy pub player. But trying to compete at a higher level the game becomes one of more subtle skill sets that require effective practice and understanding how to practice to achieve the ability to execute at that higher level of competition. It is much more than just throwing darts at targets.

Their is effective strategy and this means more than just out shots it is also set up shots that start as soon as you have thrown the first dart if your really good and in the 300's if your shit like me. There is the mental side of the game which requires practice that is more than throwing against your mate or even in serious comps. If your trying to practice it there you have waited too late. There is also understanding how to practice effectively and when and what to practice.

I would recommend reading George Silberzahn's book "Darts: Beginning to End" and take a look at his flight school program. You can find these things via google. George is a bit obtuse in explaining things at times but I think what he does well is break the game down into fundamentals and creating practice regimes that focus on those. I don't agree with him on statistics and the use of them as he doesn't see value of those things. I see great value in them but most don't know how to use them or even mentally deal with them as a measure of improvement or evaluation of weakness. The reason I recommend the book is it is a great tool and a place to start for the beginner. As your game matures you will figure out what do to that will take you past what George's book provides but his book will give you a base and a way of thinking of how to actually practice effectively. And when you have those long stretches of piss poor form George's book can help you figure out how to get out of those.
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Re: Is Novice to Pro possible?

Post by 8 Dart King » Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:57 pm

Update please

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Re: Is Novice to Pro possible?

Post by The Thorn » Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:09 pm

I mean cannibal has his own style but he has made some very valid points. Not many on this forum are more knowledgeable about playing darts (slurp)
So the OP should really consider that advice instead of laughing.

I never did Flight School myself but I've heard about it from many who used it. It helps most people and definitely a good starting point if you want to take darts seriously. And yes we'd like an update, genuinely interested.

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Re: Is Novice to Pro possible?

Post by Dining Room Darts » Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:07 pm

Suppose its possible to do it but you would need 3-4 hours practice per day. I've done a couple of hours every day this year and have hit more 140s/180s than the whole of 2018.

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Re: Is Novice to Pro possible?

Post by cannibal » Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:51 am

Any updates? Seemed so full of confidence. Did the harsh reality set in that it ain't that easy to be really good.
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