Where do you rank MVG now on the all time greatest list?

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Where do you rank MVG now on the all time greatest dartsplayers list?

Top 3
31
55%
Top 5
21
38%
Top 10
1
2%
Outside the top 10
3
5%
 
Total votes: 56

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thegentle
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Re: Where do you rank MVG now on the all time greatest list?

Post by thegentle » Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:04 am

Rogg wrote:
Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:27 am
PT13 wrote:
Rogg wrote:I bet Lewis was gutted when MVG bagged #2. He's sneered on twitter often enough about being 2-1 up. He had some nerve even doing that.
He can't do that anymore, now. Lewis was neck and neck with van Gerwen as recently as 3 years ago, yet their careers have gone in opposite directions since Lewis' 2014 UK Open win. I honestly believe one of the keys to what van Gerwen has done is his hunger and desire. He simply has more of it than other players, for almost every tournament, on the floor and TV. When they interviewed him after the match last night, he had tears in his eyes because he was remembering the pain of his previous 2 World Championship defeats and his delight and relief in winning the World Championship again. He has a hunger for competing and winning that other players will need to get if they hope to match him. Having said that, van Gerwen is clearly more vulnerable at the World Championship with the sets format and every player being massively motivated. Van Gerwen would have lost to Barney again for sure had van Gerwen not brought out his very best darts.
Rogg wrote:-- PT13 you're the man, what's the MVG-Lewis TV title count? I'd guess it's about 25-4 by now. When Lewis became a 2-time champ, MVG was nobody, ranked 38th at that Worlds. Wind forward 5 years and the great Dutchman has left him for dead.
In singles, and not counting World Series events:

Adrian Lewis
1. 2011 World Championship
2. 2012 World Championship
3. 2013 European Championship
4. 2014 UK Open

Michael van Gerwen
1. 2006 World Masters
2. 2012 World Grand Prix
3. 2013 Premier League
4. 2013 Players Championship Finals
5. 2014 World Championship
6. 2014 World Grand Prix
7. 2014 European Championship
8. 2015 Masters
9. 2015 UK Open
10. 2015 World Matchplay
11. 2015 European Championship
12. 2015 Grand Slam of Darts
13. 2015 Players Championship Finals
14. 2016 Masters
15. 2016 UK Open
16. 2016 Premier League
17. 2016 World Matchplay
18. 2016 World Grand Prix
19. 2016 European Championship
20. 2016 Grand Slam of Darts
21. 2016 Players Championship Finals
22. 2017 World Championship
Cheers! 22-4, with the margin growing all the time. Nearly 3 years since Lewis won one. Lol. As you say, attitude. MVG, psychotic. Lewis, cabbage. What a disappointment.
Some green (no MvG) shoots of recovery for Loooooouis perhaps? Playing some good stuff now, and can take inspiration from the likes of Wade and Whitlock
'Orns

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Re: Where do you rank MVG now on the all time greatest list?

Post by Randall » Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:27 am

Still top 5 for me.
I still have Taylor, Bristow and Lowe ahead of him.
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Re: Where do you rank MVG now on the all time greatest list?

Post by SolidSCB » Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:55 am

Lewis isn't recovering at all. He had a piss easy path to MvG (thought Evetts was going to give him a game but he shit himself) and then rolled over in that match.

Lazy as fuck and he's somehow managed to make that lovely throw he had look like hard work and like shit too. He'll get his exbo money though, so happy days.

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Re: Where do you rank MVG now on the all time greatest list?

Post by Gidra » Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:34 am

Randall wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:27 am
Still top 5 for me.
I still have Taylor, Bristow and Lowe ahead of him.
Yeah, but Lowe was never the man to beat. In 80-is that was Bristow, next couple of decades it was Taylor, not counting few Priestley years, and now it is MvG. So, like him or not (of course not!), he is clear no3.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RP2u4wJcnS0

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Re: Where do you rank MVG now on the all time greatest list?

Post by Randall » Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:20 pm

Gidra wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:34 am
Randall wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:27 am
Still top 5 for me.
I still have Taylor, Bristow and Lowe ahead of him.
Yeah, but Lowe was never the man to beat. In 80-is that was Bristow, next couple of decades it was Taylor, not counting few Priestley years, and now it is MvG. So, like him or not (of course not!), he is clear no3.
3 world titles in 3 decades.
Longevity is still a factor in my decision making.
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Re: Where do you rank MVG now on the all time greatest list?

Post by Rogg » Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:30 pm

Randall wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:20 pm
Gidra wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:34 am
Randall wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:27 am
Still top 5 for me.
I still have Taylor, Bristow and Lowe ahead of him.
Yeah, but Lowe was never the man to beat. In 80-is that was Bristow, next couple of decades it was Taylor, not counting few Priestley years, and now it is MvG. So, like him or not (of course not!), he is clear no3.
3 world titles in 3 decades.
Longevity is still a factor in my decision making.
The 'three decades' thing always sounds a bit funny to me. Lowe won 3 in 14 years which is the same rate as John Part, as it goes. Although for that you need to make peace with the horrors of Lakeshite '94.
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Re: Where do you rank MVG now on the all time greatest list?

Post by Randall » Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:57 pm

Rogg wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:30 pm
Randall wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:20 pm
Gidra wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:34 am
Randall wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:27 am
Still top 5 for me.
I still have Taylor, Bristow and Lowe ahead of him.
Yeah, but Lowe was never the man to beat. In 80-is that was Bristow, next couple of decades it was Taylor, not counting few Priestley years, and now it is MvG. So, like him or not (of course not!), he is clear no3.
3 world titles in 3 decades.
Longevity is still a factor in my decision making.
The 'three decades' thing always sounds a bit funny to me. Lowe won 3 in 14 years which is the same rate as John Part, as it goes. Although for that you need to make peace with the horrors of Lakeshite '94.
Even then Lowe is massively underrated.
Look at the boards he played on and tell me he wouldn't have been matching mvgs stats last night, at least.
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Re: Where do you rank MVG now on the all time greatest list?

Post by Rogg » Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:17 pm

Randall wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:57 pm
Rogg wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:30 pm
Randall wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:20 pm
Gidra wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:34 am
Randall wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:27 am
Still top 5 for me.
I still have Taylor, Bristow and Lowe ahead of him.
Yeah, but Lowe was never the man to beat. In 80-is that was Bristow, next couple of decades it was Taylor, not counting few Priestley years, and now it is MvG. So, like him or not (of course not!), he is clear no3.
3 world titles in 3 decades.
Longevity is still a factor in my decision making.
The 'three decades' thing always sounds a bit funny to me. Lowe won 3 in 14 years which is the same rate as John Part, as it goes. Although for that you need to make peace with the horrors of Lakeshite '94.
Even then Lowe is massively underrated.
Look at the boards he played on and tell me he wouldn't have been matching mvgs stats last night, at least.
I wasn't making any point about MVG, just the 'three decades' business. It was a span of 14 years, not the 30 it's made to sound like.

I started watching in the late 90s so I don't have much to do really and I'm always interested to see where people put the legends. I have Taylor 1 and MVG 2. Hard to imagine that ever changing.
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Re: Where do you rank MVG now on the all time greatest list?

Post by Randall » Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:22 pm

Rogg wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:17 pm
Randall wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:57 pm
Rogg wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:30 pm
Randall wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:20 pm
Gidra wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:34 am


Yeah, but Lowe was never the man to beat. In 80-is that was Bristow, next couple of decades it was Taylor, not counting few Priestley years, and now it is MvG. So, like him or not (of course not!), he is clear no3.
3 world titles in 3 decades.
Longevity is still a factor in my decision making.
The 'three decades' thing always sounds a bit funny to me. Lowe won 3 in 14 years which is the same rate as John Part, as it goes. Although for that you need to make peace with the horrors of Lakeshite '94.
Even then Lowe is massively underrated.
Look at the boards he played on and tell me he wouldn't have been matching mvgs stats last night, at least.
I wasn't making any point about MVG, just the 'three decades' business. It was a span of 14 years, not the 30 it's made to sound like.

I started watching in the late 90s so I don't have much to do really and I'm always interested to see where people put the legends. I have Taylor 1 and MVG 2. Hard to imagine that ever changing.
Bristow would have made mincemeat of mvg trust me.
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Re: Where do you rank MVG now on the all time greatest list?

Post by Rogg » Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:28 pm

I trust you, Randall. I know of Bristow. MVG is a woodland creature and that would not have gone too well for him overall.
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Re: Where do you rank MVG now on the all time greatest list?

Post by PT13 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:41 pm

John Lowe was very consistent. He had less bad dips in matches than the other great players of the 1970s and 1980s. If something was off in Bristow's game, Wilson's game or Anderson's game, Lowe would beat them with his consistency. It was a different era. These days, the concept of consistency wearing down an opponent is not really as much of a thing. These days, wearing down an opponent requires reliable heavy scoring and reliable finishing.

Eric Bristow used to say that he would beat Lowe as long as he did everything correct, while he was more worried that Wilson could match or better him at times. The 1987 World Championship final sums it up in a way. Lowe was the best player of the 1987 World Championship, the man in form, great physical shape, with Bristow going through a slight dip in form. Yet, Bristow gave it the swagger, and got himself into a position to win that final, but his doubles let him down, and Lowe made him pay.

Alan Glazier, one of the early full-time darts professionals, used to have the nickname "The Ton Machine". Such a nickname doesn't really impress these days.

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Re: Where do you rank MVG now on the all time greatest list?

Post by M H » Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:07 pm

[quote

Bristow would have made mincemeat of mvg trust me.
[/quote]

Without doubt before dartitis, and even then the damage would have been done.

Then bear in mind Taylor whipped MvG's arse many times before MvG started whipping Taylor.

MvG in my opinion has the potential to be the best ever in a far tougher field than Taylor faced
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Re: Where do you rank MVG now on the all time greatest list?

Post by Rogg » Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:26 pm

PT13 wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:41 pm
John Lowe was very consistent. He had less bad dips in matches than the other great players of the 1970s and 1980s. If something was off in Bristow's game, Wilson's game or Anderson's game, Lowe would beat them with his consistency. It was a different era. These days, the concept of consistency wearing down an opponent is not really as much of a thing. These days, wearing down an opponent requires reliable heavy scoring and reliable finishing.

Eric Bristow used to say that he would beat Lowe as long as he did everything correct, while he was more worried that Wilson could match or better him at times. The 1987 World Championship final sums it up in a way. Lowe was the best player of the 1987 World Championship, the man in form, great physical shape, with Bristow going through a slight dip in form. Yet, Bristow gave it the swagger, and got himself into a position to win that final, but his doubles let him down, and Lowe made him pay.

Alan Glazier, one of the early full-time darts professionals, used to have the nickname "The Ton Machine". Such a nickname doesn't really impress these days.
Ha, "Ton Machine" would only be used an insult now. No offence to Mark McGeeney.

The best I saw of Lowe was the Matchplay semi with Taylor. The elegance. If that were a glimpse of what he'd been doing for decades then I wish I'd seen some of it. Guess I got to see prime Andy Hamilton as second prize. Bit harsh really.
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Re: Where do you rank MVG now on the all time greatest list?

Post by Randall » Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:20 pm

The matchplay game was gem.
He also ran Taylor very close at The tavern around the same time.
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Re: Where do you rank MVG now on the all time greatest list?

Post by PT13 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:40 pm

That 2002 World Matchplay semi final. A classic. Taylor led 6-3, Lowe came back in vintage form to lead 11-9 and 13-11, before Taylor won 17-15. Taylor was drained at the end. He had to dig really deep to win. And then John Part, who Taylor had thrashed 4 times previously on TV, put Taylor through the same agonies in the final, with Part leading 16-15 before Taylor won 18-16.

Taylor's 16-7 quarter final win over Chris Mason, with the 9-dart finish for £100,000, saw Taylor end with a 112.17 average.

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Re: Where do you rank MVG now on the all time greatest list?

Post by PT13 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:44 pm

Randall wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:20 pm
The matchplay game was gem.
He also ran Taylor very close at The tavern around the same time.
That was the 1995 WDC World Championship at the Circus Tavern. Taylor beat Lowe 5-4 in sets, and there was a period of about 15 legs where they both went out in 15 darts or less. By today's standards, it doesn't sound that great, but it was big at the time. The Taylor vs. Priestley finals of 1996 and 1997 were others, with the standard being higher than any other big matches previously, averaging somewhere from mid 90s to low 100s consistently, which is about as good as last night's final without today's technology.

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Re: Where do you rank MVG now on the all time greatest list?

Post by PT13 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:17 pm

M H wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:07 pm
Then bear in mind Taylor whipped MvG's arse many times before MvG started whipping Taylor.

MvG in my opinion has the potential to be the best ever in a far tougher field than Taylor faced
Taylor won most of his TV matches against van Gerwen after the 2016 World Matchplay final, most brilliant of all the 16-6 win in the 2017 World Matchplay quarter final. The two wins in two nights in Cardiff in the 2016 Champions League were good too, 10-4 and 11-5, and the 2017 Premier League win in Sheffield.

As for the field, the fact is that Taylor was the pioneer of the high professional standard that defines the modern game, and even in his last year he won the World Matchplay and was World Championship runner-up, while winning most matches against van Gerwen. Van Gerwen is sure creating his own huge legacy, though, with the high standard of play on such a consistent basis, riding the tougher times to win another (now third) World Championship, dominating on the tour, still.

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Re: Where do you rank MVG now on the all time greatest list?

Post by Randall » Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:33 pm

PT13 wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:44 pm
Randall wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:20 pm
The matchplay game was gem.
He also ran Taylor very close at The tavern around the same time.
That was the 1995 WDC World Championship at the Circus Tavern. Taylor beat Lowe 5-4 in sets, and there was a period of about 15 legs where they both went out in 15 darts or less. By today's standards, it doesn't sound that great, but it was big at the time. The Taylor vs. Priestley finals of 1996 and 1997 were others, with the standard being higher than any other big matches previously, averaging somewhere from mid 90s to low 100s consistently, which is about as good as last night's final without today's technology.
The game at The tavern I remember very well, crazy standard on those boards.
Never seen it repeated or bootlegged.
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Re: Where do you rank MVG now on the all time greatest list?

Post by BeppeBergomi » Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:55 am

Behind Taylor but at a par with Bristow....

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Re: Where do you rank MVG now on the all time greatest list?

Post by fandarts » Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:26 pm

mvg put himself under too much pressure in taylors final swansong, both knew it was bragging rights and legacy at stakes, taylor didnt care if he lost to anyone else as long as he beat mvg.think mvg would have won the war if taylor was a bit younger and played on for another 5-10 years.mvg will never reach taylor trophy hauls but in time he sure will have a chunk of them.
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