Sid Waddell

Chat and Gossip About Professional Darts and The More Farcical Successors To The BDO
dartvader
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Re: Sid Waddell

Post by dartvader » Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:45 pm

Randall wrote:
dartvader wrote:
Randall wrote:My thoughts exactly.
Fordham wasn't close at the showdown before he retired due to fatness.
Still would have had Taylor a fairly clear favourite against both but you could make a case for them running him close I guess although didn't Taylor spank Barney at that masters of darts event in 05 as well as winning 'the showdown' the year before?
Think he played barney twice at the masters of darts.
4-0 in the groups and 5-2 in the semi if my memory serves.
Pretty conclusive then albeit in different circumstances to a world final although both would have no doubt been treating it like one.

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Randall
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Re: Sid Waddell

Post by Randall » Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:46 pm

dartvader wrote:
Randall wrote:
dartvader wrote:
Randall wrote:My thoughts exactly.
Fordham wasn't close at the showdown before he retired due to fatness.
Still would have had Taylor a fairly clear favourite against both but you could make a case for them running him close I guess although didn't Taylor spank Barney at that masters of darts event in 05 as well as winning 'the showdown' the year before?
Think he played barney twice at the masters of darts.
4-0 in the groups and 5-2 in the semi if my memory serves.
Pretty conclusive then albeit in different circumstances to a world final although both would have no doubt been treating it like one.
It was in Holland, everything was on the line for both of them, more so barney most likely.
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Re: Sid Waddell

Post by dartvader » Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:53 pm

Randall wrote:
dartvader wrote:
Randall wrote:
dartvader wrote:
Randall wrote:My thoughts exactly.
Fordham wasn't close at the showdown before he retired due to fatness.
Still would have had Taylor a fairly clear favourite against both but you could make a case for them running him close I guess although didn't Taylor spank Barney at that masters of darts event in 05 as well as winning 'the showdown' the year before?
Think he played barney twice at the masters of darts.
4-0 in the groups and 5-2 in the semi if my memory serves.
Pretty conclusive then albeit in different circumstances to a world final although both would have no doubt been treating it like one.
It was in Holland, everything was on the line for both of them, more so barney most likely.
There's one very big exception but when it's come to the crunch Taylor always had his number, had everyone's in fact

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Re: Sid Waddell

Post by Randall » Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:56 pm

The head to heads don't lie in the case of taylor/barney.
Back through the years even when barney was in the bdo, Taylor owned him.
Was that she was that six to twelve month spell where it was reversed.
The world final plus vegas and the uk opens.
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Re: Sid Waddell

Post by PT13 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:59 pm

M H wrote:As I said the title Lakeshite Champion was also worthless and Taylor was without doubt the best on the planet. Apart from the one week Hankey was sublime and that week would have beat Taylor as well in my opinion.

But only that week
I've heard some people say this, but Taylor was averaging 100+ in every match except the final at the 2000 PDC World Championship, and was doing likewise in the first 5-6 sets of the final before the standard of both Taylor and Priestley then dropped considerably for the next 4 sets. Mason led Hankey 4-2 at the 2000 Embassy, let's not forget.
Randall wrote:Ted had far too many poor visits to put Taylor under pressure.
I'd listen to an argument for barney in 03 or Fordham the year he won as Taylor wasn't great by his standards.
I hear people say Walton but Taylor was untouchable in 2001.
Some people were saying that Barney in early 2005 was better than Taylor after their respective World Championship wins. However, at the 2005 Masters of Darts in February, Taylor beat Barney 4-0 in sets in the group stage and then 5-2 in sets in the semi finals.

Walton did have an amazing period in late 2000 and early 2001, but Taylor was just ridiculously good at that same time, having won all the PDC majors in 2000 (World Championship, World Matchplay, World Grand Prix) and dropped just 1 set on his way to the 2001 World Championship title, averaging 107.46 in the final with a 72% checkout rate. Over this long format, he was untouchable at the time.
Randall wrote:
dartvader wrote:Come on now everyone knows Tony David and John Walton would have smashed Taylor over 13 sets...or so I've heard.
13 sets is the key.
Ted could never sustain the required level for that long.
As for the other two........
Tony David was actually very consistent in BDO tournaments in 2002, and definitely their best player. I think it was only the World Masters out of their big events that he didn't win that year. He won their World Championship, the Australian Grand Masters back in his home country, and also the World Darts Trophy and the Doeland Grand Masters in the Netherlands.
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Re: Sid Waddell

Post by PT13 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:05 pm

Randall wrote:
dartvader wrote:
Randall wrote:To be fair to Ted he did maintain a 98 average for nine sets, once, against mason, in 20 odd years.
He's lived off it ever since, that tournament is very much looked at with rose tinted glasses by some his performances were 80% bang average, to suggest he'd have beaten Taylor over world final distance is ridiculous
Some would have you believe he'd have beaten him in 09 as well.
I remember that Hankey was very keen on a world champion vs. world champion showdown against Taylor that year. Barry Hearn said that there was no demand for such a match.
Randall wrote:Part in the 01 final got what? Two legs.
107 and 70% checks.

Barney annihilated in 09 averaging a ton.

Taylor got it done, and he'd have buried Ted either year.
Part won 3 legs in the 2001 World Championship final, and one of those was a 3-figure outshot early on in the match. What Taylor did to Barney in the 2009 World Championship final shows how brilliant he was playing at that time. The match was closer than 7-1 suggests, but Taylor's average over such a length says it all.

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Re: Sid Waddell

Post by Zeyes » Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:08 pm

In the end, the split probably resulted in people being overrated on both sides of the divide. (Not everybody of course, but quite a few.) Something to keep in mind in the future when people inevitably start making obtuse comments about how there aren't as many stars as before in the modern game or how those stars aren't as big.
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Re: Sid Waddell

Post by M H » Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:08 pm

PT13 wrote:

I remember that Hankey was very keen on a world champion vs. world champion showdown against Taylor that year. Barry Hearn said that there was no demand for such a match.
Hearn was right, it wouldn't have sold tickets.

Hankey did a paper piece with a hearse saying he's put Taylor in a coffin or something similar.
When you actually feel anger over a place like this it's time to get a life

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Re: Sid Waddell

Post by Randall » Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:13 pm

PT13 wrote:
Randall wrote:
dartvader wrote:
Randall wrote:To be fair to Ted he did maintain a 98 average for nine sets, once, against mason, in 20 odd years.
He's lived off it ever since, that tournament is very much looked at with rose tinted glasses by some his performances were 80% bang average, to suggest he'd have beaten Taylor over world final distance is ridiculous
Some would have you believe he'd have beaten him in 09 as well.
I remember that Hankey was very keen on a world champion vs. world champion showdown against Taylor that year. Barry Hearn said that there was no demand for such a match.
Randall wrote:Part in the 01 final got what? Two legs.
107 and 70% checks.

Barney annihilated in 09 averaging a ton.

Taylor got it done, and he'd have buried Ted either year.
Part won 3 legs in the 2001 World Championship final, and one of those was a 3-figure outshot early on in the match. What Taylor did to Barney in the 2009 World Championship final shows how brilliant he was playing at that time. The match was closer than 7-1 suggests, but Taylor's average over such a length says it all.

Many of the sets in the 09 final went the distance if memory serves. At the pressure points barney couldnt match him.
7-1 was very harsh though.
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Re: Sid Waddell

Post by PT13 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:13 pm

Randall wrote:It was in Holland, everything was on the line for both of them, more so barney most likely.
Indeed. Barney's disastrous performances in the Dutch majors in 2005 (Masters of Darts, International Darts League, World Darts Trophy + the Dart Galas), and the subsequent hammerings he got in the media, saw him fall out with his long-term manager, Ad Schoofs, and to teaming up with Ed van der Veer. I think Barney decided then that if he was to ever become the real best dart player in the world, he would have to join the PDC.

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Re: Sid Waddell

Post by PT13 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:23 pm

dartvader wrote:
Randall wrote:
dartvader wrote:
Randall wrote:My thoughts exactly.
Fordham wasn't close at the showdown before he retired due to fatness.
Still would have had Taylor a fairly clear favourite against both but you could make a case for them running him close I guess although didn't Taylor spank Barney at that masters of darts event in 05 as well as winning 'the showdown' the year before?
Think he played barney twice at the masters of darts.
4-0 in the groups and 5-2 in the semi if my memory serves.
Pretty conclusive then albeit in different circumstances to a world final although both would have no doubt been treating it like one.
Also, at that same 2005 Masters of Darts event, Taylor beat Fordham 4-2 in sets and 7-1 in sets, the latter in the final. That was the last TV tournament where Fordham played proper world class darts.

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Re: Sid Waddell

Post by Randall » Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:45 pm

Didn't Taylor batter Tony David as well?
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Re: Sid Waddell

Post by PT13 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:31 pm

Randall wrote:Didn't Taylor batter Tony David as well?
4-0 in sets in the group stage of the 2005 Masters of Darts.

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Re: Sid Waddell

Post by Randall » Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:34 pm

PT13 wrote:
Randall wrote:Didn't Taylor batter Tony David as well?
4-0 in sets in the group stage of the 2005 Masters of Darts.
So against bdo champions that week Taylor was what, 22-3?
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Re: Sid Waddell

Post by PT13 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:05 pm

Taylor beat Barney 4-0 and 5-2, Fordham 4-2 and 7-1, and David 4-0.

That's 24-5 in sets against BDO world champions in the 2005 Masters of Darts.

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Re: Sid Waddell

Post by Randall » Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:20 pm

PT13 wrote:Taylor beat Barney 4-0 and 5-2, Fordham 4-2 and 7-1, and David 4-0.

That's 24-5 in sets against BDO world champions in the 2005 Masters of Darts.
At a time when by his own standards he wasn't even playing that great.
When he had too, he turned it on.
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Re: Sid Waddell

Post by KingMervtheFirst » Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:28 pm

On the topic of Sid, does anyone remember an old monthly column in Darts World called "Pro Life"? It regularly bashed the BDO, including always referring to Robert Holmes as 'Hans Christian Holmes'.

On one occasion in the commentary box, Sid accidentally blurted out 'Hans Christian Holmes' when he was intending to say 'Hans Christian Anderson'. On this basis, some people speculated that the anonymous "Pro Life" might have in fact been Sid. The column disappeared years ago.

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Re: Sid Waddell

Post by Rich » Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:30 pm

KingMervtheFirst wrote:On the topic of Sid, does anyone remember an old monthly column in Darts World called "Pro Life"? It regularly bashed the BDO, including always referring to Robert Holmes as 'Hans Christian Holmes'.

On one occasion in the commentary box, Sid accidentally blurted out 'Hans Christian Holmes' when he was intending to say 'Hans Christian Anderson'. On this basis, some people speculated that the anonymous "Pro Life" might have in fact been Sid. The column disappeared years ago.
I remember this.
Sid was a right laughing at times.
The fucker knew when the BDO was toast.

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Re: Sid Waddell

Post by sennafan24 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:39 pm

KingMervtheFirst wrote:On the topic of Sid, does anyone remember an old monthly column in Darts World called "Pro Life"? It regularly bashed the BDO, including always referring to Robert Holmes as 'Hans Christian Holmes'.

On one occasion in the commentary box, Sid accidentally blurted out 'Hans Christian Holmes' when he was intending to say 'Hans Christian Anderson'. On this basis, some people speculated that the anonymous "Pro Life" might have in fact been Sid. The column disappeared years ago.
You've solved a mystery of mine there.

Before I started lurking on darts forums, I used to read Bobby George's website. He would often complain about someone called "Pro Life". I didn't have a clue who he was on about
HalloweenJack wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:09 pm
Randall wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:05 pm Dulla has never faced anything like Taylor in top gear.
Maybe he could have dragged Taylor down, we will never know.

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Re: Sid Waddell

Post by PT13 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:48 pm

Sid was trying to tell the BDO in 1993, in his own unique way, that they were heading for the rocks. Of course, they didn't listen. The BDO hated that Sid did MC work at WDC events for much of 1993.

Sid had gotten some abuse from Tommy Cox on the WDC side at the 1993 Embassy too. Tommy had already seen the BDO as beyond help. At the 1993 Embassy, Sid did an interview with the BBC where he said that the WDC rebels were correct but that they were going a bit too far with wanting total control over the Embassy in 1994. Cox then said to Waddell "What kind of man are you? Doing deals with us one minute and then calling us greedy buggers the next". Dick Allix then said to Sid, "Does this mean that our deal for you to talk to Tyne-Tees Television about a WDC darts tournament this year is over?". Sid said "No, of course not. But don't tell Tommy until tomorrow. Let him sweat a bit".

Sid watched the 1994 WDC World Championship at a friend's house, as Sid didn't have Sky TV at the time. He was half-hoping that it would be rubbish, so that he could comfort himself by saying that nobody could do darts like the BBC. Instead, he was very impressed straight away with the whole presentation on Sky and could see that this was the future for darts. He felt as sick as a chip that he would be commentating at the 1994 Embassy instead. Sid spent the week at Lakeside trying to avoid Olly and Lorna Croft, but they found him eventually and accused Sid of "betraying our family of darts". That tournament was the last of Sid's association with the BDO, as he joined Sky Sports in June 1994.

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